May 9, 2011 at 12:43 am
Posted by Torrence Davis
McWhertor and Kotaku are full of shit
Sterling and Destructoid are full of shit
IGN will always be…full of shit
PR reps, start supporting the outlets that support YOU!
destructoid, guardian heroes, IGN, Kotaku, SOCOM 4, Torrence Davis
@ Torrence. You sound like a Sony Fanboy being upset about IGN’s review on SOCOM 4. Are your “feelings” hurt? That was IGN “single personal Opinion” about the game. Your opinion may be different. Maybe PR sent out the game to IGN to hope for a non-bias opinion. You are coming off as some fanboy for Sony who is upset that he didn’t get a copy of the game so that you could give it a positive bias review. Don’t start taking the HHG route and start slamming sites because they gave a game a low review just because you think the game is better than 1 or 2 sites opinion on the game. IGN is NOT the only site to give SOCOM 4 a 7 or lower. Playstation: The Official Magazine (US) – 70 Eurogamer Sweden – 70 Eurogamer Italy – 70 Eurogamer Portugal – 70 Games Radar (in-house) – 70 PlayStation LifeStyle – 70 Edge Magazine – 60 The Escapist – 60 GameSpy – 60 Eurogamer – 60 Joystiq – 50 Destructoid – 30 It’s great that YOU love the game so much, but just because YOU love it doesn’t mean it’s a quality game to other. Maybe, just maybe, the game is not all that great and your feelings towards gaming is more ambitious than others. Maybe you accept games for what they are and are always willing to give high reviews for average games. Either way, stop taking the HHG route and criticize other sites because they don’t share your OPINION in what is good and what isn’t. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then most likely it’s a duck regardless if 1 person thinks it’s a Swan.
Why am not surprised. I don’t really care what they gave the game. I said this in the video. My issue is that PR should be promoting the games to the sites that like them. I did get a copy of Socom 4, after requesting it, after release. It would have been nice to be able to review this game before PSN went down. Like I said, their reviews don’t matter to me, but it does matter to me that the PR aren’t actively scouting the websites that care about their games.
Yes, you did say a couple times that you didn’t care about the score in your video, but maybe you should actually watch your video. You CLEARLY stated that you didn’t like the scores that were given. Isn’t your whole point “PR should be promoting the games to the sites that like them ?”. How would PR actually KNOW if that site liked “them” (I guess you are referring to the game) if the game hadn’t even been reviewed yet? Being upset with PR for sending out games to sites that later review them poorly would mean that you have an issues with them sending games to sites that give low review scores. So then the REVIEW MATTERS to you. If IGN gave the game a 10 and Distructoid gave the game a 10, would you have any issues with that score? No of course not and wouldn’t be ranting about PR giving games to sites that give low review scores for games that you feel don’t deserve it. Thus, you have an issue with the scores that other sites give or else you wouldn’t care which sites they send the games too. Where is your rants about PR sending games to sites that give High review scores for games that didn’t deserve 10/10′s. Like I said PR send the game to the sites but don’t know who will be reviewing the game and wouldn’t know if the reviewing the game like it or not until after the review. “Like I said, their reviews don’t matter to me, but it does matter to me that the PR aren’t actively scouting the websites that care about their games.” Are you saying that PR should ONLY send games to bias sites?
“Being upset with PR for sending out games to sites that later review them poorly would mean that you have an issues with them sending games to sites that give low review scores. ” You’re a dumb ass. I never said they shouldn’t send to sites at all. I’m talking about early review code versus post release date code. Also, it’s not based on places who give low scores, but specifically which sites who are hyping the game and giving positive reviews versus the sites who traditionally score certain games below expectations. I gave you a perfect example with Dtoid and Sterling. Sterling doesn’t like 3PS. It’s obvious. So why send him early code for a 3PS game? “How would PR actually KNOW if that site liked “them” (I guess you are referring to the game) if the game hadn’t even been reviewed yet? ” It’s called COVERAGE! Most sites cover games before they are released. Do you think we will give BF3 a bad review considering what we’ve seen so far? What about if we are still ranting after we play it? We played BFBC2 2 months before released and ranted and raved about it. Guess what…the review was great too. “Are you saying that PR should ONLY send games to bias sites? ” No, EARLY code should be sent to the sites that like it. Late code should go anywhere they deem worthy. It’s clear that you have a reading and watching comprehension issue.
Why do you respond to idiots?
If you don’t, they will always think they are smart. I think it’s our duty to inform the idiots that they are actually idiots.
True, but this idiot will always think he’s smart and we’re all dumb. Yet, he’s the one who swears by Metacritic as the deciding factor of a game’s worth and not his own opinion.
Well reginald given that you think I’m MOTY you’re kind of an idiot yourself.
Funny how you say “yet, he’s the one who swears by Metacritic” when we are in a discussion about PR and review scores where Torrence rants about PR not doing their job because they don’t screen the sites to see which sites have been actively promoting the game in order to get good reviews out first before the rest of the reviews come out. All metecritic is, is a site that takes ALL THE REVIEWS (which is what the topic here is) and averages them out. If metacritic didn’t matter, then neither do review scores, and if review scores didn’t matter, then Torrence wouldn’t be ranting about PR sending out early games to sites to get a positive review out ahead of other sites. I see you’re not too bright here.
” Also, it’s not based on places who give low scores, but specifically which sites who are hyping the game and giving positive reviews versus the sites who traditionally score certain games below expectations. I gave you a perfect example with Dtoid and Sterling. Sterling doesn’t like 3PS. It’s obvious. So why send him early code for a 3PS game?” - You are mixing up people with sites. How do you know that those sites weren’t hyping up Socom 4? Was there advertising on those sites for Socom 4? How is PR to know WHO is going to do the review from those sites? Is PR suppose to say “here is your early code but you can’t have so and so do the review”? “It’s called COVERAGE! Most sites cover games before they are released. Do you think we will give BF3 a bad review considering what we’ve seen so far? What about if we are still ranting after we play it? We played BFBC2 2 months before released and ranted and raved about it. Guess what…the review was great too. ” - Again, if they are big sites, then most likely there has been coverage. And I highly doubt anyone is going to say anything negative about the game prior to release. I have read “previews” but there is no indication within them if the game is going to be good or bad, it’s just a preview. Plenty of sites ranted and raved about games because they played them prior to release. Look at your boy HHG, he rants and raves about any new game regardless if it’s crap. “No, EARLY code should be sent to the sites that like it. Late code should go anywhere they deem worthy.” - Ok understandable, but are you saying any tom dick and harry should have access to an early code just because they have a site and are hyping up a game? Should 15 year old timmy be given an early code for a game because he has a hard on for it and a small site that just opened? “It’s clear that you have a reading and watching comprehension issue.” - I don’t think that is what the issue is. I think the issue is you ranting about something that you didn’t put enough thought into.
it cracks me up when you go off on rants. i agree with the kotaku thing.i liked that site a long time ago dont visit it anymore. as far as the IGN goes it got a 7.0.thats not a bad score tor. there are a couple people at ign that if you listen to there podcast that really has passion for gaming.i will agree not all of them though. i have never been to destructoid so i cant comment on them. IGN POSTS MASS EFFECT 3 SHIT LIKE EVERY WEEK.THEY NEED TO GIVE THAT SHIT A REST
ok i can read no more fist post even on bitbag man of the year your a tool plz stfu
i forgot to mention because nobody have yet i dont think.there is a app in the samsung market place on samsung smart tv also on 3d blu ray players called viaway.you can watch bitbag tv on. just a heads up if you didnt know
Ha ha man, i agree with you, the Kotaku thing is plain bullshit. But then again the editor is just showing how full of shit he is so the hell with it, that’s why i never visit that site. IGN giving the game a 7, i think they just mean its a good game but not great, i haven’t read their review yet but i frequently hear them say that a 7 on their review scale does not mean that its a bad game. And Jim Sterling and Destructoid are just trolling for hits, no doubt. They give games low scores and terrible games high scores. I wouldn’t take their advice on gaming for shit.
see reply to Michael.
Tor you can’t say Ign gave Socom a shit score when it says 7 = good. People posting a bunch of numbers from different sites, but there isn’t a universal scale for all those sites. A 7 might be good for IGN and just ok on another site. It was a funny show though.
I don’t really care about the score. I was just pointing out that if we had our copy before embargo, we would have given it a better review and score if we scored games. A 7 isn’t bad, but this is a high profile game and I don’t think they treated it as one. We would have…and we will.
“We would have…and we will.” The determination to secure a high review for an exclusive game. It’s good to finally see an impartial review….. /s You show em Torrence. You show those bias sites like Playstation: The Official Magazine and PlayStation LifeStyle who both gave the game a 7 as well as IGN, how to properly give a high review score for a Sony Exclusive.
fuck you lmao
This whole thing makes no sense. Why do we care what other sites reviewed a game? It is thier opinion. They have a right to it and they explained their rationale for it in their reviews. Why question who PR give games to? PRs are NOT supposed to give games to sites just because they like the series/type of game. They are supposed to put the game out to as many sites as they can. Logically, they will give the games to “bigger” sites first because they have the biggest fan bases and will give the game the most exposure. Proof of this is the fact that people on this site, both fans and for some silly reason some staff members, continue to visit and talk about them. The only thing that bothers me is when smaller and lower ‘quality’ sites get games and information before bigger higher ‘quality’ sites do. Even then, I just figure that the PR involved are not doing a good job. The way things are now, its who you know and who’s ass you kiss. But putting in the work and focusing on one’s own site will pay off in the end. There are lots of sites that have potential, but hold themselves back by focusing on things non-gaming/tech/nerd culture realted.
Let me ask you this Mike. If you were working PR, which sites would you send games to? Would you even bother sending anything that’s 3rd person to Jim Sterling? If not, then why? This type of stuff has to be questioned and YOU know how frustrating it is when other sites get the silver platter treatment but have no passion for gaming. The fact that Destructoid got the game early and shit on it should tell you that PR is not doing their job. I don’t really give a shit about their scores. Are people watching the whole video? Did you see the part where I said I really don’t care about their scores and that PR should look to specific sites to promote their games? That was my whole point of this rant. Yes, I’m going to diss Jim and IGN for their scores, that’s entertaining, but I really don’t care. I just want PR to open their eyes. And McWhertor is a fucking tool.
That is a good question Torrence. If I were working PR, I would give the games and information to the biggest and highest quality sites. Thats the rule of thumb I would follow. Now, I think a lot of PR don’t do their homework on sites and that causes a lot of issues. Even so, I would. In the situations you brought up, I would think to myself, there is more than one writer on these sites. This is especially true of the bigger sites. I’d give the game/information to another writer on the site if I feared biased or unprofessional work from a specific journalist at the site. Now I agree, it is frustrating to see sites with no gaming knowledge or passion get the silver platter. The thing I have come to realize though is that it is very easy to point the finger and look at what others are doing wrong. If one was to take an objective look at our site can you say for certain they would immediately see our gaming knowledge and passion? Perhaps we should spend our time focusing on ensuring that our own passion and knowledge is visible. Oh, and I never mentioned the score thing because I don’t argue with people over review scores. You can say that you don’t care about their scores but you brought them up and used them in your rant. I don’t get why but eh. I would have figured you would have spoken about any issues you had with the quality of their review (as in the writting and such) versus the score which wasn’t bad at all, and falls in line with what lots of other people are gave the game. Eh, in the end, we do agree on one thing. PR do need to open their eyes. They do need to do a better job. It would be nice if PR actually learned about the sites they work with and were actually figure out more than just the alexa (or which ever) rank and ‘journalists’ and ‘gamers’ that kiss their ass. I wish they would find the sites that would spread the word about their game.
“Perhaps we should spend our time focusing on ensuring that our own passion and knowledge is visible.” Couldn’t agree more.
I understand the frustration and I hope that someone starts to listen to what you say. I think they would hit a wider audience by sending early reveiw codes to various sites like The Bitbag. One question Do you think your site general “language” usage affects the PR not sending out review early codes? With “languange” usage I mean it is a lot of swearing. The limit is probably different in the U.S. but do you think it might have something to say. It is not meant negatively, just a question.
Good question. I’ve often wondered that but even if it were so, I wouldn’t change. Even if they all stopped supporting us, I wouldn’t change.
And that’s why I love your site.
i use to not even go to ign site when i first found this site.but you and hiphop always brung them up so i checked out there site.they are not that bad tor.plus they always talk about there reviews in there podcast.some of the guys that rate the game also think the number scale is stupid but its a part of there job. i was not aware of ign until you guys kept bringing them up.
LOL @ gametrailers being “just as big or bigger than ign”. But its the game industry say whatever BS you want.
Jim Sterling had better not be the new Gidget. Gidget is supposed to be a rich attractive female blonde teen ager in the early 60′s who learns to surf from men pretending to be beach bums but are really a rich man’s son and a temporarily out of work airline pilot. Jim sterling does not meet the criteria and probably would not if he were to change his name to Kim Sterling and wore a blonde wig.
I don’t think i will ever understand people when it comes to reviews. Maybe people, who like a certain game feel the need to justify there purchase or prove they are right about view, but it makes no sense to me. Opinions have no fact to them, they have no grade scale, and no universal judgment system, so every site will not grade to the same standard. This being said the only opinion that can matter is your own, and there is no need to challenge an opinion. Even people who are obviously are haters shouldn’t be challenged, they should be ignored, you cant fix there stupidity or change there views. For example if metacritic give COD BO a 98% overall rating, and i personally dislike the game, then its not a 98% super amazing game. I am not right but the reviews are not wrong, its all views. I also think PR should be based on quality over quantity, but the problem is, if lot of people view fanboy shit as quality what is pr to do. People who go to website have proven time and time again the prefer nonsense over quality pieces, the fanboy stuff gets attention while well written pieces get overlooked. At the end of the day PR are probably not gamers, they are business, and they follow the numbers. Just keep up the hard work and more people will find this site, hopefully more real gamers.
I missed these tor
Hmmm. This whole thing is interesting to me but I’ll try to avoid going off on one of my tangential ranting essays. Tor, I think you should be careful of why you call out who you choose to call out. The Kotaku guy, fair enough, he is a bit of a wanker. The whole Guardian Heroes post was borderline pointless and he probably didn’t even think that title would be diss worthy. However, I think you should be careful of calling out Jim Sterling about a review, because although I sometimes love him & other times hate him, he is one of the more Honest internet personalities out there and that is something you should respect. (as i’m sure you do, deep down somewhere) I don’t think anywhere in the actual video you said “Fuck Destructoid” which is good, even though that is written in your description. If you did insult destructoid I would have to call shenanigans on you because its really a site that you/we should not have such a potent negative stance on. I would never even put them in the same bracket as IGN, Gamespot, etc. I dont wanna be associated with a site that people will just look at as “another one of those blogs that hate on bigger blogs” or “destructoid haters”. They are literally one of the few big sites that actually have a personality and are gamers first, journalists second. It just seems a bit weird that you are slamming a person for giving a game a certain review, when the companies that send these games to these sites are asking for Honest Reviews. Not good reviews, not bad reviews, just honest reviews. And even more noteworthy, is that if they do insist upon a good review but then the writer instead gives it an honest review that ends up in a bad review, then that person earns many respect points in my opinion. Of course they will hope for a good review for other reasons and sometimes throw money at a site to inspire a certain score using the power of money but we can never really know when this happens or what companies are doing this. I do think that the handling of the review was a bit fishy. If jim sterling really does not like 3rd person shooters, maybe he should not have reviewed it, but at the same time, hes still a gamer with an educated opinion who explained thoroughly throughout the write up the reason why the final score ended as a 3.0. He played a game and he didn’t think it was good. End of story. You can’t be saying fuck him and destructoid just for those reasons. To be honest, it makes us look more like haters and less like real gamers who respect honesty.
I’ve openly admitted that I respect Jim Sterling because we agree on a lot of things. He’s still an ass though and read that review of his. Dude doesn’t even understand the spawns. He’s very uneducated when it comes to 3PS. I like Destructoid too. Their boss is cool and who doesn’t like Collette? Saying their full of shit and telling them to fuck off is just me being angry and ranting. Jim Sterling, however, is a true asshole. I don’t care what anyone thinks. If I can’t be honest about my feelings, who in this world can? I’m not angry at his 3.0 score, I’m angry that they continue to get carte blanch with games like this when we’ve been hyping up Socom 4 since beta started. As a PR person from Sony, we would have been the better choice for the early copy of the game, not the late one. So now Sony has screwed themselves. Look at the sales for this game. Oh and I don’t think Jim was honest with his review. He was hasty and uneducated.
are you kidding anybody and everybody can be called out. rather you like it or not.these guys are ppl like everybody else. tor gets called out all the time on the site. lets not put these guys like they are on some king of high and mighty chair.
Why a lot of you guys talking about the score when clearly Torrence main point is the PR, he brought IGN , Destructoid and Kotaku to show the PR why they need to change their tactics That is his main point
Yes that is his main point, but he picked a poor choice in game to make that point. He complained about IGN giving a bad score yet Pro Sony sites like Playstation: The Official Magazine (US) and PlayStation LifeStyle also gave the game a 7. So how is Sony’s PR suppose to change their “tactics” when their own bias sites give the same scores as IGN? I asked Torrence this question and he has not answered so I will ask you. Should Sonly only send out review copies to bias sites that they know will like the game? If so, then wouldn’t that be a tactic to deliberately try and mislead the consumers? Wouldn’t that also lead to websites no longer be considered reliable sites if they continuousnessly give high scores for average games? Wouldn’t this “tactic” also decrease the amount of possible exposure of the title resulting in under marketing the title?
Yet all u have to do is look at HHG’s website of constant 9 and 10 reviews of games and see how that tactic has worked for him and the publishers. So far all it seems to be which is what I am many have suspected is to send him free copies of games to have rather than have the idea that Torrence is talking about but IMO won’t change a bit as to the exposure a game gets. I don’t see why Torrence picked this game when the whole. industry including the Playstation magazines came out with similar scores on their reviews. Maybe they saw his review on Gran Turismo 5 wondering why 6 months later on an exclusive you did have at the time and even then it was an outdated review after all the updates.
And you are a fan? I don’t think so. Just another troll it seems. I would LOVE to be able to get reviews done faster except like myself, our editors have real jobs, school and other activities that prevent us from operating like an IGN or Kotalkshit. Put us in a situation similar to theirs and you would never see a late review. That’s not the case here. It takes all of us awhile to do reviews. If you don’t like it…if it bothers you, go somewhere else. I’m sure the editors at other sites communicate with their fans as much as I do and also drove the Daytona 500 in GT5 and were able to change the oil and see the differences. Your comment wasn’t constructive at all. It’s more useless drivel. The things you’ve stated are very unsupportive of this community and this site and everything we sacrifice to entertain and inform you. Kiss my ass!
Torrence, I think you guys do a great job. I have never said otherwise. But in your rant you do make the point that you have been saying good things about Socom and that you don’t understand why PR didn’t send you an early copy yet you just admitted yourself that you and the rest of the bitbag have actual jobs and therefor are limited to the amount of time that can be put towards reviewing games. So why would a PR company that wants to get the reviews out asap send thebitbag an early copy if there is a good chance that the review won’t be done by the time the game is launched? Also you made a very valid point that because you and thebitbag members have daytime jobs which results in longer periods of waiting to get the review done while sites like Kotaku and IGN actually have staff that work all day at those sites. Why would a PR company choose your site over say IGN if they know IGN can get the review out on time while thebitbag may not? Michael makes a good point in response to your rant yet you tell him to “kiss your ass”. Your community is responding to your video without using profanities and making a valid point and you tell them off? Are you having a bad day at work?
Torrence, Well MOTY just pretty much stated what i was pointing out. This isn’t the first time you pointed out about life getting in the way of this site or reviews and yet the whole point of your rant is about getting early review copies to boost about the games. That is all I was doing was pointing out the contradiction. Like MOTY mentioned, if they did it the way you want PR to do it, then why even then would u expect PR to still send you an early review(remember you said they can do all the research of sites) but yet life gets in the way and that review MIGHT not be posted early. I and others have been at this site long enough to know this is not your day time job. Twitter pretty much tells us what your day time job is lol. I was just simply providing MY opinion about your whole rant. This post just made the rant pointless now. You can’t have it both ways and expect to be treated similar to IGN or Kotaku since you are not 24/7 with the site. I never once said that they are better because this is their day job or that you have less quality of a product just because of life. I just think IMO your rant is irrelevant and your complaints about how other sites review is pointless.
Well I would assume that if TBB got an early review copy that whoever was writing the review would put everything aside to get the review done before the game launches. I could be wrong but I figure that the reason that TBB’s reviews come in so late is because there is no real motivation for the writers to get them done in a timely fashion. Having an early copy and a game company wanting the review done by a specific date would seem like high enough incentive to prioritize a game review.
Torrence Davis is the joe budden of this video game shit. mad passion
@torrencedavis:disqus Now that IGN gave brink a 6 i guess you feel you should have got the exclusive review.
In this case, no. IGN usually rates FPS games high so no exclusive HOWEVER, we should have got the game early considering all the Brink events we’ve been to and raved about the game.
If I was PR I would send my review copies to the sites that actually like the game first. Why? Because the customers will get a positive impression of the game first and that is why they give out review copies. The other sites will review the game one way or another so there is no reason to worry about exposure of the game. I don’t think PR people care about if a site is reliable or not anyway, they go by how many hits the site gets. Which is a double edge sword because if the game sucks more people will know. So I think it’s better to give the review copies to sites that is hyped for a game rather than sending it to a site that is not.
By your logic Tor they should send everything exclusivly to Hiphopgamer for a guaranteed 9/10+. Is this really a world you want to live in?
You have made a very interesting argument my friend. One that can’t be refuted. However, you still misunderstand me. Let’s say we are hating on a game. Like SSFIV. If it’s known that we don’t like the game, we shouldn’t get it early. PR wants to put as many positive reviews out there as possible for release date. Pretty much any review after that is just free marketing. It’s those day 1 reviews that count. That’s why the sites with the most traffic usually get the game early. In some cases, we get the games early too. I have Fable III for PC already. Embargo is next week. I gave the Xbox version a very positive review. Doesn’t it make sense that I got the pc version early? However, if Capcom chose to not send SSFIV code to us early, it would make sense to me. In the case of HHG, one would think by looking on the outside, that he gives shitty games good scores to please PR. However, I believe that HHG is a fan of gaming, not unlike myself, and the aspect of new games is fun and exciting. I haven’t played a shitty game in a long time. The stuff I buy is usually good. Star Ocean sucked bawls. It was the most boring RPG I’ve played in years. FFXIV is on that level too and has been impossible to review with all the issues they’ve had. Other than that, most of the games that piss me off, even CODBO, have plenty of PROS to validate a purchase. BO single player is amazing! Worth the $60 imho. Back on point…it’s PR’s job to make sure their games get good reviews. It’s unprofessional for editors to give every game a good review to insure they get early copies. We would never do that. In the case of Socom 4, we should have got it early. We would have had our review up before PSN outage. We can’t do shit now. In the case of Vanquish, we should have received it early. I think you get my point…at least I hope you do. Now to slam MOTY.
Awaiting eagerly for that slam.
I posted this yesterday, but I do not understand how this comment section works, since it ended up somewhere in the middle of all the comment section. Anyhow, It belong here ————– Is it wrong for Torrence to state this. I totally understand what he says, and why would it bee a mislead to the consumers? Here he is talking of Socom. If I had based my descision on review scores from the general review scores on the web, I would have second thoughts buying this game. If the PR had done his/her job right, as this Rant is about, you would have seen varios review scores the first days. Then you probably would have checked out several of them to see why. Then we as consumers could base our descision on that, and that is more fair than how it’s done now. Not only for the consumers, but for the developers and sites like The Bitbag as well.
” If the PR had done his/her job right, as this Rant is about, you would have seen varios review scores the first days. ” - But you did see various review scores the first day. There were a mass amount of review scores on the first day. Your comment makes no sense. PR DID their job and sent out the early copies to many sites to get more exposure for the game “under the impression that the game would be good”. “Then you probably would have checked out several of them to see why.” - That’s what people did. On release day there were around 10 reviews on N4G alone. Again, I don’t understand your point and how this relates to Torrences rant. “Then we as consumers could base our decision on that, and that is more fair than how it’s done now.” - That IS how it’s being done right now. What Torrence is saying is that NOT to just give it out to a bunch of sites where they may have a history of giving certain genre’s low scores because it’s not a type of game game that review likes and to send out the early copies to sites that have a history of hyping up the game on their site. From a business standpoint I agree completely with Torrence. But as a consumer, I don’t want my first reviews coming in from cherry-picked sites that may have a bias agenda either they just talked it up a lot so to get a free game, or if they are some kid with from a no name site that has a hard-on for a particular genre, character, developer or console.
In my mind I was giving this game a 9.5 out of 10 when commenting., and should have stated that. It came out wrong, but that’s becuase I suck in English. Anyhow, my impression after release, was that this is a “bad” game without reading any reviews. It was my impression after reading headlines on n4g. I played the beta, I loved it, and made up my mind before release. If I had not played it, I probably would have second thoughts regarding low review scores. Well not me actually, but most likely several gamers checking reviews before buying. If you split this comment up with “that makes no sense” sections, I will probably not reply because it’s just going in a loop when you engage. I’ll just end my opinion with….. I think Torrence has a very good point in his rant.
You didn’t review GT 5 for months which was one of the most anticipated exclusives of the last 4 years. You provided all types or reasons why that review didn’t happen back when. Why would they send you an early copy if it took you until March to actually finish the review? Maybe that is why they are not sending you early review copies?
See response below, then kiss ass again.
Hey, if a site really likes a game, how is that misleading? Answer that question Einstein! If a site really likes a game, they really must like it right? How is that bias?! How can you not trust a site that really enjoys a new game? You are a tool. Dark Void IS an awesome game. I never gave GOTY to Red Faction and even if I did, it’s Editor’s Choice and the most votes win. It was one of my favorites that year but UC2 beat it out. I never changed my NHL2K10 vote. The other editors liked it better. There’s a voting process, it’s not up to one person. I would never change a GOTY vote due to public outcry. Don’t ever come on my site and start putting words in my mouth again. You are a fucking tool and a fucking idiot. You are actually stooped lower than Mikemadden. You come to this site to spread your bullshit rhetoric day in and out. You don’t listen to anyone, you always think you are right and will go as far as LYING or MISLEADING the community to believe that you are right. Kiss my fucking ass. You don’t even have the dignity to post with one account so you use MOTY and OTHERZINC. I KNOW THIS! Fuck off! Yep, I said it. Don’t care. I’m the only Editor In Chief in the nation that will proudly tell a troll to fuck off. Yep. Feels good. If I catch you lying or misleading or trolling this site again I will ban you and Otherzine permenantly.
“If I catch you lying or misleading or trolling this site again I will ban you and Otherzine permenantly.” Thank you. What took you this long? Do you know how much better this site will be if you ban mikemadden/michael and MOTY/Otherzinc/Cheeseburgerman21/Emery Calame? Those two are the source of your fanboy wars problem on this site. I assure you more intelligent gamers will start to comment if you ban these two idiots.
I haven’t been on here in a long while and looking at the times that I wasn’t here commenting your comment ” I assure you more intelligent gamers will start to comment if you ban these two idiots.” holds no water. This site was a dead in the comment sections and even worse in the forums.
How the hell can two people be the source of a fanboy war?!?! Yes I disagree with 98% of what MOTY says, but he has the right to an opinion. Don’t be so quick to call someone a fanboy just because “others” do. MOTY isn’t half ass gaming and i respect that. “Intelligent gamers” LOL!
” Hey, if a site really likes a game, how is that misleading? Answer that question Einstein! If a site really likes a game, they really must like it right? How is that bias?! How can you not trust a site that really enjoys a new game? You are a tool.” Hey Einstein! How would a PR company KNOW if a site really likes the game before sending the game out to them? You are mixing up your argument. Are you talking about the sites review or are you talking about the PR? You are saying that PR should send an early copy to sites that THEY KNOW will give it a positive review and not to sites that have a history of giving negative reviews. THAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT. PR wouldn’t know if a site is going to give the game a positive review unless they researched that site to see their history of reviews for that genre or developer or all over game. Your argument is that PR should send early copies to sites that will more than likely give a positive review to the game. That is trying to stack the cards. If you already know a site is more than likely going to give a positive review and therefor ONLY give your game to that site and sites like it, then you tilting the benefits in your favor as a PR company. Like I said, from a business standpoint I agree with that. But from a consumer standpoint, why should I only be permitted to read the reviews from sites that may have a bias towards those kinds of games or developer or company that an exclusive game is on? Why do YOU, TORRENCE DAVIS care about reviews if YOU DON’T CARE ABOUT REVIEW SCORES? WHY are you ranting about WHO PR companies send games to if you don’t care about review scores? How does a PR company sending SOCOM 4 to IGN where they gave the score a 7 impact your TORRENCE DAVIS’s decision to purchase the game or to even like the game? “You are a fucking tool and a fucking idiot. You are actually stooped lower than Mikemadden. You come to this site to spread your bullshit rhetoric day in and out. You don’t listen to anyone, you always think you are right and will go as far as LYING or MISLEADING the community to believe that you are right. Kiss my fucking ass. You don’t even have the dignity to post with one account so you use MOTY and OTHERZINC. I KNOW THIS! ” - WOW. You even researched it yourself and stated before that we are not the same person, and now here you are claiming that you have proof that we are 1 of the same person. PLEASE PRESENT YOUR ACTUAL FINDINGS. I live in Toronto Ontario. M5J 2y6 is my postal code. Please prove to me and everyone here the MY IP address is similar to Otherzinc’s. Hell prove that we are eve located in THE SAME COUNTRY!! ” Fuck off!Yep, I said it. Don’t care. I’m the only Editor In Chief in the nation that will proudly tell a troll to fuck off. Yep. Feels good. ” - You know you have lost the argument when you have to resort to swearing. “If I catch you lying or misleading or trolling this site again I will ban you and Otherzine permenantly.” - Please show me WHERE i lied, WHERE i mislead or WHERE I was trolling. This is YOUR RANT that i am just questioning. You wanna censor your site from those who have a different opinion than yourself go ahead. All I am doing is just questioning why you are ranting about something that seems to be misdirected.
If Tor doesn’t want to discuss things and wants to wave his pimp hand around and pretend that he’s protecting himself from being wronged then that’s that. Screw this site. It’s just another useless festering shit hole of egomaniacal idiots doing wanna be journalism. There’s too much of that on the net. Time to admit the obvious and just move on. Bye dicks.
I don’t think it’s misleading to send copies of game to sites that are hyped for the game. Take Brink for instance, some game websites that were hyped for the game may have given it a med to low score. I’m not saying the sites that get the game first should give the game high review scores. As a PR person you want the game to get as much positive feedback as possible before anything else. All other sites will post reviews and some will feel the game is worse than others, but form a business perspective you want the positive review out first before any negative review. The game will speak for it self when it gets to the reviewer. If the game is bad then it is the responsibility of that reviewer to tell customers about it. PR should have no influence on what that game review score should be. If a website was shitting all over a game saying the game will be bad and all this stuff? Should a PR person still send them a game for review? My answer is no, I would not send a game to that site. They will get the game one way or another and review it. But as PR I want the positive to come before the negative. By going on the stuff you said they should send it to that site, because if they don’t then PR is mis-leading the customer. Also PR doesn’t care if people don’t like the website or not, because people will still read the review and look at the score. Also it’s not PR fault is a reviewer give every game they play a positive review either. That should be the guy they want reviewing their game.
@Man_Of_The_Year:disqus ghostdini85″ PR should have no influence on what that game review score should be.”- But isn’t that exactly what PR would be trying to do? By sending early copies to sites that they know are more likely to give it a positive review score would be influencing what the early scores will be.
Not really, they would be sending the game to a site that is hyped for their game. What that site gives the game is a different story. PR is not influencing nothing they are just giving the game the best chance to succeed.
“Not really, they would be sending the game to a site that is hyped for their game. ” - Which could lead to a bias review. Look at HHG’s review for God Of War 3 as a case and point. If the game is truly a good game worthy of a good score, then it shouldn’t matter what sites hyped it up, what sites don’t care about that genre or what sites only cover certain games. Remember every review is just 1 person’s opinion so giving a game the best opportunity to succeed is still just a game vs. a persons opinion. PR’s job is not just to try and get positive reviews for the game, that is the developers job. The PR’s job is to get exposure and product awareness.
You don’t know shit about this business then. Let me point you to Gerstmanngate. Ubisoft got him fired because they didn’t like his review score. Gerstman, who was arguably one of the best reviewers, left to create his own empire. PR wants positive reviews because positive reviews = sales. Don’t even sit here and tell me that PR doesn’t care about review scores. That’s why they support sites who are also a part of metacritic. Found this shit out recently that sites who are on metacritic get more support than sites who aren’t. My point is, from a PR standpoint, if they want to see better scores, they should support the REAL sites that are supporting their particular game first. In the case of Socom 4, we should have had it prior to release as we would have already had the review done and gave it a much better score than a 3. It’s all about quid pro quo. Support the sites that like the product first so your first day review scores are better. Those sites are going to give it good reviews regardless, so why not support them first? By giving it to Dtoid or IGN, you are only going after traffic. Well, Dtoid gets millions of views and all of those followers now believe that Socom 4 is a shitty game. It’s not Jim’s fault he doesn’t know how to review a game like this, it’s PR’s fault for giving it to him for a day 1 review. You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about MOTY. I’ve been in this business for over 15yrs. I know how it works and I know what PR wants. Problem is, they aren’t working hard to get what they want. The Bitbag is no shitty fly by night blog looking for free games. We are looked at and quoted by the industry. Sometimes we do get games prior to release. Most of the time those games are reviewed by embargo deadline. If we did this for a living, 100% of those early copies would be done by embargo. The problem I see with some of you so called fans is the lack of appreciation for what we do here. Like YOU and MICHAEL, Mikemadden and that Emery guy I just banned, there’s no appreciation. Seriously, people still pissing about the oil change thing in GT5. Bullshit! YOU DO based your purchases off of reviews. You don’t have a mind of your own when it comes to buying games. You’ve admitted that already so I see where you are coming from. But don’t act like you know this business, because you don’t. I HATE doing game reviews. I absolutely hate it. If it weren’t for my game editors, I would never ask for a review copy of a game again. Tech is a totally different beast. We don’t score our reviews for a reason. We’d like people to read the reviews instead of just going to the score like you do. It’s Sony’s fault they sent Sterling a copy of the game. Let them keep doing it and I’ll continue to ‘request’ copies and get them late. It’s like, they sent me a fucking Killzone 3 chocolate bar but didn’t send the game until I asked. What kind of shit is that?! It’s hilarious. It’s also why I hate some of the business side of gaming. There are a fuckton of things we could be doing differently and I’m about to change that. I’m gonna change everything I can to continue to differentiate ourselves from other sites. I’m tired of the wack ass formulas of this business. It’s time to get real people. It’s time to stop pandering to the bullshit and get down to the real issues of this business. THAT is what I’m going to do and I don’t care if I lose 100% of the support I get from this industry. I don’t do this for them, I do it for myself and my fans. If publishers don’t want to support us after some of the changes I’m going to make, then fuck them. We could always purchase games to cover them. Sony missed out on an opportunity by not sending us our copy pre-embargo. Their loss. Also, Sony and MS didn’t post our E3 awards up in their booths last year. Even if they are awarded an E3 award this year, they will receive the award via email. No sense in wasting money to promote their games right? I’m tired and fed up with the bullshit. I’m tired of the way we are treated by SOME of the PR out there, I’m tired of the fanboy bullshit, I’m tired of gamers no longer gaming for fun. All these new school gamers care about is graphics first, not gameplay. I will continue to call people out on their bullshit. I will call out ANY site who is full of shit. I will call out ANY journalist who is full of shit. I will call out ANY publisher who is full of shit and I will continue to do this because I think it needs to be done. I don’t care about gaming events, e3 or being swept away by publishers. If you can’t respect me after I criticize you, then move the fuck out of the way. IGN and Dtoid can do what the fuck they want because the publishers need them more than they need the publishers. Well right now, thebitbag doesn’t need help from any game publisher. We will do without them. So they can either ride along with us and reap the benefits, or they can ignore us and keep getting shitty coverage from Sterling, IGN and Kotalkshit. We have nothing to lose. I’m spending $3100 just to cover all the game shows this summer. I sure as hell would like to spend that money on a new 60D, but I have fans to support. Fans that appreciate what we do here. I press on forward regardless of how I feel because it’s nice to create content and have someone send you a message telling you how much they agree or appreciate your work. THAT is what keeps me going. So if you are going to sit here on our forums and comment section and talk shit, I will ban you and you can go ask Crecente, Miller or Sterling to chat with you. I will not tolerate trolls anymore, even if it’s entertaining. Keeping a troll around means someone else is discouraged from posting. So watch what you say MOTY, Otherzinc, Michael, Mikemadden and others. Mikemadden is a little snake in the grass. He likes to go to other sites and talk shit about thebitbag and it’s fans, then he comes over here and tries to act nice. Mikemadden is a little punk. I won’t tolerate bullshit anymore. Don’t test me trolls!
Clearly we are not going to see eye to eye on this. Lets just end this conversation with my final question and your final “appropriate” answer if you can hang up your ghetto attitude and be mature for a moment. For someone that doesn’t care about review scores (yourself which you have stated) and feels that gamers shouldn’t care about sales, why do you care so much who PR companies send out games to and what review scores (their opinions) they give the game?
Could you explain what you mean by his “ghetto” attitude? I don’t want to jump to conclusions, so could you just explain that statement for me?
“Ghetto” as in lack of maturity. ”Thug like” using profanities as a means of retaliation to someone who is otherwise NOT throwing profanities at him. The ability to have a simple back and forth conversation in a democratic manner than to start pulling out verbal pistols and shooting “ass” and “fuck” all over the place where other (innocent) readers have to be subjected too. “GHETTO”
“Seriously, people still pissing about the oil change thing in GT5.” If you didn’t have an ego problem the oil change comment in your review could have been corrected in done with in seconds. How can you get mad because fans of the series found misinformation in you review? This was just another example of you ego tripping. “Mikemadden is a little snake in the grass. He likes to go to other sites and talk shit about thebitbag and it’s fans, then he comes over here and tries to act nice. Mikemadden is a little punk. I won’t tolerate bullshit anymore. Don’t test me trolls!” I believe you are talking about the link to the article i posted on GOS. Now if all i wanted to do was trash your site why would i wait sooo long to spread the article? That article came out in jan or feb. I just wanted to show you that you’re not perfect and your site isn’t either. LOL @ me being a punk.
In all honesty if anyone has a problem with what Torrence said here, you yourself are a problem. It is that simple. You do not have to agree with his stance on the whole review/PR situation (hell I don’t), but I respect where he is coming from. You can disagree in a respectful, articulate, and mature fashion. I think this is lost on people online in genral, but especially by all the well known trolls (screw it, lets call them what they are; proof that abortion is not always a bad idea) on this site. The rest of what he said here is the truth. He, and most of the staff, put in work and most of it is completely at the cost of our own free time and money. Honestly, I’m shocked it took him this long to say these things and put idiots on notice. Then again, Torrence is a far nicer person than I. I will never understand why people continue to go to a site just to complain and hate. Why? That is like hating seafood yet going, of your own will, to Red Lobster or Joe’s Crab Shack and not only complaining about and hating on the selection of food, but also complaining and hating on the taste of the food once you foolishly order it. It is really simple. Respect the work and effort thats in front of you, or move on. I don’t get how people struggle with that.
I enjoy the bitbag hence why I come here. I enjoy Torrences hard work. I enjoy many aspects of this site. However, I only questioned his rational for the rant. Asking simple questions (without the use of profanities) shouldn’t result in being attacked. Like I have said many times in this thread, I agree with him on a business standpoint but not on a consumer standpoint. If Torrence doesn’t want a discussion regarding his videos or articles, then there shouldn’t be a thread for the video or article. I asked him a simple straight up question that he is now avoiding and what looks like now is being “cock blocked” by having you an Darian comment rather than just wait to read Torrences response. Still waiting on your Response Torrence.
Is it wrong for Torrence to state this. I totally understand what he says, and why would it bee a mislead to the consumers? Here he is talking of Socom. If I had based my descision on review scores from the general review scores on the web, I would have second thoughts buying this game. If the PR had done his/her job right, as this Rant is about, you would have seen varios review scores the first days. Then you probably would have checked out several of them to see why. Then we as consumers could base our descision on that, and that is more fair than how it’s done now. Not only for the consumers, but for the developers and sites like The Bitbag as well.
Completely agree fuck em! Anything with SEGA on the cover usually gets trashed by IGN. Problem people take these sites reviews and impressions as gospel. Play magazine had a thing where the editors that loved a genre reviewed only those games. I hate Madden football games, biggest waste of time for me, should I review that game? Of course not, I will give a poor score because I don’t care for it. Anyway you get my point before I rant too much.
I personally dont believe in a scoring system at all as to a means to buy games. There is no empirical personal value to generalize what a 85% game means to a individual verses a 95% rated game. I view scores as a general measurement on a personal account to what that/those gamers experienced. But i never let my gaming collection be decided by MetaCritic or any verbose scoring system. I play the game , i gamefly, i like and dislike and i move on, its with every other electronic i own i try it myself and see what the game does for me. I truley do not understand how some allow there taste to be defined by a verbose rating system that has no relevance to personal taste. But i can see the generality based some peoples need to justify a budget or simply justification of a purchase. This is why i like Adam Sessler, he also thinks scores are stupid but he has to do them for idiots that need a number that has no value to there own gaming taste to have somewhat a random measuring tool that people use in internet arugments or in personal rebuttals when making a purchase. Glad i have a brain all im saying, it truly is a terrible thing to waste.
Generally I believe that reviews mean more when the reviewer spends their own hard earned cash on a game. That way you can tell they are not just sucking up to the publisher in order to get more early copies or exclusive interviews, footage, screen shots, ect. Very few sites actually do this which is why I rarely base my purchases on mainstream reviews
i agree with socom 4′s low scores. ive played it now for 20 minutes and its a clunky mess of shit
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