December 12, 2010 at 11:30 pm
Special Guest from The Tester 2 Big Fazeek – Big Fazeek joins us this week to talk about his illegal booting off of the Tester 2. Hater fans get on the show and tell BF how they feel.
GT5 sales
NPD
Quake Live Arena
Uncharted 3 announcement
Tomb Raider
The possible blacklisting of yet another game publisher
Music:
EpMd
Business Never Personal
“Crossover”
Video Game Warzone #113January 16, 2011Video Game Warzone #140November 13, 2011
Tomb Raider Review: Smooth silky hairMarch 14, 2013
Reus Review: God of Crabs 
Steam Weekend: Chivalry, Unreal bundle, F2P Defiance 
Mirror’s Edge 2 spotted on Amazon Germany 
Next-gen Kinect motioning to Windows in 2014 
Humble Weekly sale features Alan Wake series Sony PS 4 News | Grand Theft Auto 5 Review | Skyrim News | Xbox 720 Release Date
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![New Games [May 6-12 2013]: Fatal Frame 2, Pinball FX 2](http://www.thebitbag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Qube-Against-the-Qlock-170x100.jpg)
![New Game Releases [April 29-May 5 2013]: Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon, Fez](http://www.thebitbag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Far-Cry-3-Blood-Dragon-170x100.jpg)
![New Game Releases [April 22-28 2013]: Dead Island: Riptide, Star Trek](http://www.thebitbag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Star-Trek-2013-game-170x100.jpg)
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I hope this is good. Damn, near 5 hours!
every time i see the number 1 or 11 i think of uncharted 3. this show was crazy a must download.
idk what happened this week i was in the wz and then i just got dropped or something and it wouldn’t let me back in kept failing to connect, but i can get on the server now.
There’s a new server now. Ts50
Funniest Warzone in a long time…..
this should be fun ,thank you guys
humm… if you build it they will ome huh. PS- Uncharted 3 ,eat it Xbots
-The tester is the realworld with prizes. It’s a reality gameshow douche. -The square headed guy was annoying -why should have hhg gotten credit for kratos in mk. It’s like the avp debate or Freddy vs Jason debate. Dreamcast = win More in a little brb
Uncharted3 trailer was shit! Resistance 3 was awesome!
I’ve never heard so many ‘you know’s per minute.
discuss the neogeo station next episode (I have not listened to episode yet at the time posdting this commenting) http://neogeostation.snkplaymoreusa.com/eu/
Listening now…. @Torrence, You do know that 5.5 million GT5 number was “shipped”, right? You guys should’ve read that, that you guys are great “journalists”, & unearth a great deal of info because us “couch gamers” aren’t on the inside! On NPD, SONY selling almost 1million less than its competitors Wii & M$ is tremendously significant, seeing it is “November”, a huge holiday month, right? If this were June & SONY sold 500k, its a great month, the same cannot be said for November. Maybe they can sell a million in December….but, I doubt that. Also, I said GT5 wouldnt sell big in the Americas & it didn’t.
This episode took the warzone to a new level of craziness lol! The lesson of the week is “don’t piss off puerto ricans”
LOL
Race card = epic fail!
prove race had nothing to do with it. do you personally know the people tor was dealing with? you cant prove race wasnt a factor so saying “race card” was a fail on your part.
You do realize that that could easily be flipped around and the question would still apply? Ex: “Prove race had something to do with it.” This is exactly what i meant when i said its too easy to pull out the race card. Most people who do just this tend to have a history of giving up on trying to find out the real reason behind why they were treated the way they were and find it much easier to jump straight to the conclusions and say that the situation was based off of color. This is exactly why taking about racial issues in the states is so difficult/controversial/heated. Whenever we don’t fully understand something or when we don’t want to hear the truth, we instantly put up barriers or use the trump card of http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/2135/original/thats_racist.gif?1287089013 and btw, that’s not something we all do, just those who use the “i’m pretty sure its because he/she was black” as an appropriate argument for just about everything. btw, from our points of view, its hard for us to even fully assess the situation correctly without coming across as assuming like we actually know what really happened when in reality, we weren’t there so we really don’t. So in the end, neither of us can actually prove who’s right or so there was no fail on his (SixAmp) or your part.
why people keep saying “race card” or “black card”? THERE ARE NO F**KING CARDS!!! this is real life. if the man felt he was discriminated because of his race let that be. nobody has the right to tell a person straight out “you were not a victim of racism”. “black card”??!! what a bunch of bullshit. i wish everybody could be an minority for just a week. get them out their comfort zone.
Then everytime a black guy or gal doesn’t get their way someone says No soup for you they should call rev douche dick sharpton and scream race card? Most people in every industry get what they want by having connections. People get paid off of “gifts” for info. Race card is fail. 85% of the time is a copout for failing. I’m gonna claim race card because people other than “whites” get extra points and moved up on civil service test ( city jobs ) plz Fuck Danny glover I hope he never gets another taxi again. Predator 2 sucked!
@sixamp that’s exactly what i’m saying! @MM “nobody has the right to tell a person straight out “you were not a victim of racism”.” if that were true, then what gives someone the right to tell someone that they were a victim of racism when that person doesn’t have the entire story? also, I think you can especially when the situation is being blown out of proportion. think back to the fools who were calling RE5 racist. In this situation i agree with you, but you also have to realize that your on the same side as us. the side where we really don’t know the exact details of the situation so we really cannot say “it was” or “was not” an act of discrimination. i’m on the side of “it wasn’t” because i generally don’t agree with the idea that this problem revolves around him being black . if that was true then do you honestly believe that HHG would be in the position he currently is in? we as blacks have just as much of a chance to get into the gaming industry as anybody else, it all comes down to how passionate you are which is exactly why i have such huge respect for HHG regardless of what i may have said in the past. “why people keep saying “race card” or “black card”? THERE ARE NO F**KING CARDS!!! this is real life. ” i think your evading the discussion by trying to come back with what i said, only in a literal manner which makes it seem like a bit of a scapegoat maneuver. while of course i understand that there are no real life “cards” that can be used to avoid these situations, its hard for you too disagree with the idea that people in many societies will try use their race or backgrounds as an excuse to not be labeled as something they’re too blind to see or too ignorant to acknowledge. also, you don’t need to be apart of a minority to get out of your comfort zone. all it takes is doing stuff your normally not used too or being around people you normally wouldn’t be around. i feel that by doing this, you can achieve a much larger mindset of the world and the many people we share it with. we start to realize that there are other people from other backgrounds who have gone through the same troubles as we have and sometimes even more. this idea that “nobody knows what they’re taking about because they’re not apart of a minority” is pretty absurd.
@Torrence, You need to learn how to stfu when 2 people are cordially going at it; leave them alone. However, I do commend you for finally suttingtfu & letting them battle! That candy goblin & the guest were about to battle……….still listening. And so what if she releases a discussion, what does the guest have to hide in his threads.
2hour 09minute mark & I’m on the floor LAUGHING MY @SS OFF! Damn……torrence stopped it….saying he’s board, what ever! After that show last week, let them battle I thought this was the friggin warzone.
@oog “they probably think tor is a little white guy” really. are you living in a fantasy world up there in canada? they know exactly who he is. this was the first of many excuses you said to try to clear race as a factor. “dont play the black card” WTF! i hate when people say this dumb shit. its telling people to turn a blind eye to racism. you dont know the what other people truly think of torrence. if he feels race may have been a factor let that be his judgment. you cant and will never understand where he is coming from. wow. you said more than once!! “a lot of these sites are ran by black people” excuse #2. using other “black people” as an example was a complete fail. i wish the world could understand that NOT ALL “BLACK PEOPLE” ARE THE SAME. stop putting us in the same boat. just because other sites with “black people” were getting things doesnt mean torence wasnt snub because of his race. “it has nothing to do with race” you could never prove that. unless you have some super power to see what a person true intentions are. “you cant call a black card” that 3 or 4 times. LOL. but you can eliminate race as a factor without undeniable proof? “i want to see a world where people dont call the race card” i would like to live in a world where people arent racist. oog have you ever felt you were a victim to discrimination? oog i would love for you to visit where i grew up on the eastside of detroit. you could stay in my mothers house she has 3 guest rooms. my old neighborhood is 99.8% black so you will be the minority. im willing to bet life would be a lot different than what youre use to in canada. ps i hope it doesnt sound like a black vs white thing. but you have no right to tell a person race isnt a factor. anyone can be effected by racism. @torrence the world of warcraft rap was cool. rapping about world of warcraft………yea.
Actually I have plenty of right to say don’t use a race card when I know exactly what Tor has been dealing with the past 6+ months unlike you. See the difference is I can see whats going on from inside the site and you don’t so in reality unless you know everything going on with the site and have an inside track you really don’t have an opinion worth mentioning on the topic. It could very well be due to the color of his skin but then you have to account for the other people who are also from different races that are getting proper treatment. Its better to look into problem and gather facts b4 automatically saying its because of the color of my skin etc. I also guarantee you Tor knows exactly what I mean because we have talked about the gaming pr compared to other industries pr companies etc… Something you haven’t. Racism does exist but it should never be a default answer/response. Thats the last thing I will say on the issue. If you want to talk about it on the show then buy a mic.
“Actually I have plenty of right to say don’t use a race card when I know exactly what Tor has been dealing with the past 6+ months” dumbest shit i ever read. this pr lady might be at clan rallies every friday night. prove that this lady didnt discriminate against tor because of his race. and you better not say “well she gave that black site a game” because like i said we arent all in the same boat. “See the difference is I can see whats going on from inside the site and you don’t so in reality unless you know everything going on with the site and have an inside track you really don’t have an opinion worth mentioning on the topic.” see the difference is youre not a minority so you see from outside looking in. so unless you know everything its like to be one you have no opinion worth mentioning on the topic. “Thats the last thing I will say on the issue. If you want to talk about it on the show then buy a mic.” its the last thing you will say but you want to talk on the show……..ok see you on warzone 112. i going to show you how much you dont know about life kid.
Its the last I will talk about it in the comment section… grow a brain MM. But since you insist.. heres a great thing to think back on… Tor didn’t say it had to do with race .. he didn’t even mention it.. it was Jon who brought that up. Also that lady who you say might be in a clan or whatever is a stupid assumption made by yourself. This same women also was the person who sent Tor Splintercell etc and was in good contact with him for a short time…. so why just assume she all of a sudden became a racist. Also toss in the fact we were talking about more than that one person but the fact that its been difficult to deal with most of the companies and their PR because most of them don’t truly care unless your name is IGN etc and then the rest are basically random draws like winning the lottery. You can run and say racism all you want but you are also showing ignorance by making the assuming that race has anything to do with it without actually having any facts at all, Just because you have met racists that were ignorant doesn’t mean that you also have to be ignorant. Now like I mentioned above this will be my final response on the topic. If you want to really talk about it buy a mic and go on the show and talk about it ill be more than happy to respond as well as the rest of the staff. Also do me a favor.. go and ask Tor straight up does he think this incident had anything to do with the color of his skin and see what his answer is. **PS: One of my best friends since I was 5 is black and his mother still calls me one of her kids. Don’t assume just because I’m white that I don’t understand it just makes you look ignorant.
wow the nerve of this dude. he feel he can tell a person that they werent discriminated for their race. WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU! if im ignorant for saying maybe race is a factor than youre just as ignorant for saying it isnt. you have a lot to learn about life. i know i talk a lot shit here but 99% of the time is about video games. this topic is personal and you showed me how little you know about the real world. and im not talking about the internet world.
I don’t think it was a race issue at all.
Like I said MM go ask Tor you ignorant cunt. Really who do you really think you are to come at me the way you are trying to dumb jackass. You foolish F**k you have a lot to learn. You don’t even have anything to do with the gaming industry and you don’t know any of the facts about what the site has been dealing with when communicating with gaming PR companies. I didn’t say that your ignorant for saying race might be a factor. Im calling you ignorant because your assuming racism without any facts you fool. FYI you dumb shit Tor didn’t feel like he was discriminated because of his race he said it himself you stupid f**k. Go get your facts straight before you try coming at me. Yes MM you are so right I don’t know about the real world /end sarcasm. Ignorance is bliss MM live it up.
“One of my best friends since I was 5 is black” classic. how is this relevant? what do you want a pat on the back. “good job for having a black friend”!! “You don’t even have anything to do with the gaming industry” ??? ok what is your point? “ill be more than happy to respond as well as the rest of the staff” i like the name calling real mature. based on that and you bringing the staff into this makes me believe you feel backed into a corner. answer me this oog have you ever work/live in a community where you were the minority?? log off the internet in come out your comfort zone.
I’m half Black actually jamaican puerto rican and Chinese so just wanted to say fight the power and rosewood is not a good movie to watch with your girl if she is white Many odd moments indeed but what the heck are you guys talking about Lmfao . Jah bless!!! The show was great controversy makes for great podcats lol but not gonna lie when the race card was starting to get discussed my complilation of roots was pulled out and a fist was being made lol jk great guests!
MM-”see the difference is youre not a minority so you see from outside looking in. so unless you know everything its like to be one you have no opinion worth mentioning on the topic.” people need to realize that you don’t need to be a minority in order to think or be treated like a “minority”. think about it….
L.A. Noire is developed by a new studio in Sydney lead by people who were the lead designers of Getaway 1 (which was made by Soho studios in London). L.A. Noire is only published by Rockstar, not being developed by them, and maybe using RAGE engine too. And yeah it is pronounced ‘nwar’
On predictions: @Fat, Lionhead Studios closing in 2011?, after Fable 3 outsold GT5 in its second month NPD?, for a total of 1.4million sold in 2 months. For those that disagreed with me earlier with no comment?, GT5 sold 400k NPD. I guess SONY couldn’t block NPD from releasing that. @Weapon, Ico didn’t sell, Shadow of the Colossus didnt sell, so what makes you think people are waiting on The Last Guardian? Ask HipHop to bring his camera to the midnight opening.
nice spin by not saying world wide sales. the bots never change.
It’s not a spin if he is only commenting on 1 region that actually tracks sales. There are only 3 real trackers in the world that track game sales, and North America is the largest gaming market in the world. If developers can’t tap into the NA market for sales, then it drastically holds back the game sales wise. As a developer, you NEED to get your game to sell in the NA market if you are looking for maximum returns. Games like ICO and Shadow of the Colossus are niche titles. Just like LBP. They are great games, but in a niche that doesn’t have a lot of consumer support. As for GT5, those 5.5 million sales are Sony’s Sales to retailers or (shipped). Not sold to consumers.
LBP is real “niche” with over 2 million custom levels. no consumer support there. im getting out of the sell shitstorm. im all about the games.
Come on dude use your head instead of getting your Wonder women panties in a bunch getting all emotional. What does 2 million custom levels have anything to do with the niche market it is in? 1 person alone can make several levels. When I said “consumer support” I ment consumers buying the title in that genre of gaming. LBP sold 3.88 million and is one of the highest rated titles of this gen so far. It’s just that it’s a type of game that the masses don’t care about. You know as well as anyone that if it’s not a FPS or a shooter at heart this gen, then nobody wants it. Just like how Lost Odyssey did with sales. Awesome turn based JRPG and probably the best JRPG this gen IMO and yet it didn’t do well like most JRPG’s this gen. Shooters rule this gen. Look at the line up for Sony coming in 2011. Killzone, Infamous, Resistance, Uncharted…All some kind of shooter. Hell I have even read comments that you have made complaining about this gen everyone only buys shooters.
“As for GT5, those 5.5 million sales are Sony’s Sales to retailers or (shipped). Not sold to consumers.” Were is your proof that GT5 sales are not sold but shipped. Even if they are shipped You do know that Aaron Greenberg confirmed that Microsoft reports on sales to customers being retailed stores. It was confirmed on the bitbag by an interview Torrence did with Aaron Greenberg. All Iam saying is if saying you sold x amount of x product really means thats what you have shipped and if thats a bad thing Microsoft has confirmed that they been doing that.
“Sony’s pretty confident in its latest big release, Gran Turismo 5. The publisher shipped 5.5 million copies of the game to retailers worldwide since launching in late November, pushing the entire franchise’s worldwide lifetime shipped numbers to just over the 60 million mark (61.41 million, precisely).” http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/10/gran-turismo-5-ships-5-5-million-worldwide/ It’s all over the internet. There are also a ton of articles about Sony trying to pass off their Shipped 5.5 as sold to customer. But in Sony’s defense, to them sold is shipped to retailer because it’s retailers that buy from Sony. So technically Sony is still correct saying “sold” since to them it is sold to retailers. “You do know that Aaron Greenberg confirmed that Microsoft reports on sales to customers being retailed stores.” No shit. Of course MS only track shipped to Retail. Who said they didn’t? I am just giving an FYI to Torrence who said on the Warzone 5.5 million sold. That was a vague comment as we don’t know if he was talking about shipped or sold.
Ok so just for everyones information the 1.37 million xbox360 sold in November is really shipped to retailers since that is who their customers are.So just to clear this up 1.37m xbox360s is what was shipped not sold to consumers.
Oh come on man, you are not even trying to use your head. According to NPD MS sold 1.37 million in North America. NPD dude. NPD is not Microsoft. NPD tracks SOLD from retailers to customers. MS gets their “sold” information from NPD for North America and then release a comment to the press talking about NPD numbers. http://www.digital-digest.com/blog/DVDGuy/2010/12/10/game-consoles-november-2010-npd-sales-figure-analysis/ Sony stating 5.5 million shipped is to retailers all around the world. And since many regions don’t track sales, Sony has no idea how many units are “sold” to the customers. just like MS has no idea and why they talk NPD numbers all the time. NPD/Media Crates and some regions in Europe track sales. The only thing MS and Sony can track is the orders that come into them from retailers. That is why, Sony stated 5.5 shipped. If you look at NPD/Media crates and EEU (i think that’s what it’s called) then you can get an “idea” of how well games and consoles are selling. You want to know why Sony is talking “shipped” and not mentioning NPD? Because they know GT5 is not selling as well as they anticipated. So they boast about “shipped” numbers when what they really did was flood the retailers with copies. You will see. In a couple of months GT5 sales will be off the radar because retailers will be trying to sell the extra stock that Sony had sent them. As of Novembers NPD, GT5 was in 8th place in sales. 01. Call of Duty: Black Ops (360, PS3, Wii, PC, NDS) ACTIVISION BLIZZARD ** – 8.4 Million 02. Assassin’s Creed: Brotherhood (360, PS3) UBISOFT ** 03. Just Dance 2 (Wii) UBISOFT 04. Madden NFL 11 (360, PS3, Wii, PS2, PSP) ELECTRONIC ARTS 05. Fable III (360) MICROSOFT** 06. Donkey Kong Country Returns (Wii) NINTENDO 07. Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (PS3, 360, Wii, PC) ELECTRONIC ARTS 08. Gran Turismo 5 (PS3) SONY** 09. NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, Wii, PS2, PSP,PC) TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 10. Wii Fit Plus (Wii) NINTENDO** GT5 was beat out by Fable III and Madden NFL which BOTH have been out longer than GT5 and Fable III doesn’t have anything near the prestige fanbase or popularity that GT has. Now you can say “well America is not the world” and you are right. GT5 is holding the #1 spot in the UK beating out FIFA 11, which has been out for several months prior to GT5′s release and most of the fanbase of FIFA has already bought the game in the UK since they love their futball so much and the other game is COD BO, which sold so much during it’s launch that most of the people that were going to buy the game already did so the sales for COD BO would be low anyways. So how many copies did GT5 actually sell to beat out FIFA 11 and COD BO? Don’t expect too many. As for Media Crates (Japan) GT5 sold just under 500K in it’s first 4 days so awaiting on some actual GT5 Japan sold numbers. However from what Tor said in the Warzone, GT5 is not doing as well as expected in Japan. But I am not sure what source he is using.
You said “You want to know why Sony is talking “shipped” and not mentioning NPD? Because they know GT5 is not selling as well as they anticipated” and you also said “GT5 was beat out by Fable III and Madden NFL which BOTH have been out longer than GT5 ” You do know that GT5 was only out for one week in November don’t you? Yup thats right the NPD numbers was only 1 week worth of sales so how do you know it isn’t selling as well as Sony anticipated? Iam sure they realized that the NPD numbers are only for 1 week of sales and I am sure they are happy the way it is selling not to mention what it has sold in one week alone in the UK.
Iceberg32, What difference does it make that GT5 was accounted for only 3 days on NPD? This was the second coming of Christ based on how everyone said that GT would do for the PS3. It has been constantly talked about how much better it is to Forza. It has been the most “anticipated I bought a PS3 4 years ago” game for the system. I mean what is troubling and what Torrence didn’t bother to understand even when he questioned why is anyone saying anything about PS3 numbers is due to the fact that it was a YOY decline or %25 drop from last year. The PS3 sold less during November which is one of the two months out of the holiday that systems sale the most. That wasn’t the case for the PS3. It not only didn’t beat last year but the most anticipated game didn’t push any PS3s out the door during BLACK FRIDAY. That is why the numbers are suprising for the PS3 because how unique this month was with GT5 coming out. That is a poor excuse to say it was only days that it was out on the markent. Halo has only seen days it was out on the market and we already know how it does in 24 hours. GT is just as big as Halo. But that is how it goes when not everyone goes by facts or research. Oh and MS has the capability of knowing how to track 360 sales that go direct to a consumer. Let me know if you want the answer. If you ever purchased a 360 and notice they scan both the system and box at the purchase counter.
@ Iceberg I appreciate you using quotes from my comments. It shows that you are willing to read and quote what some has to say and use it as a means to perform a proper rebuttal unlike some people on this site. You stay focused. I give you much respect for doing so. Now you are absolutely correct about GT5′s sales only being covered in NPD’s November numbers being the first week. Had this been about any other game, I wouldn’t even mention the NPD numbers. But like mboojigga stated, GT5 was not to be just any other game. GT5 is THE #1 Sony franchise and was expected to be a major title sales/review wise. If Gears (a new IP) can sell millions in it’s first week, then GT5 with it’s prestige name and following should have had Halo 3 or Reach or COD numbers. @ mboojigga Ya that argument has been around for some time. And I agree that it would be a much better way of tracking POS data. It makes more sense. Why they don’t I have no idea. Maybe it would cost too much to be tapped into every retailer that uses bar code scanning. What we do know is that they are not using it.
The thing is this isn’t even about one game. Even if GT5 didn’t release the whole month or Black Friday, it doesn’t explain why the PS3 stil sold less this year at %-25 vs 360 %+68 YOY increase when both systems got one of the hottest multiplayer game of the year which is COD:BO. The PS3 saw an increase of sales for this years version of COD. 3mil vs 4 mil on the 360. It is all suprising how the PS3 had two games that were at the same caliber and it ended up selling less this year. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6230/npd_behind_the_numbers_november_.php
mboojigga to the rescue!!LOL here you are again coming to man_of_the_year rescue anyways you say ” That is a poor excuse to say it was only days that it was out on the markent” How is that an excuse that is a fact do dummy! You also say “Oh and MS has the capability of knowing how to track 360 sales that go direct to a consumer” Well knowing how to track direct sales to consumers and actually doing it are two diffent thing now isn’t it !! And last you say “The thing is this isn’t even about one game” Yes it is stupid Me and man_of_the_ year are talking about GT5.
LOL and not suprised by that response.
@ mboojigga Well I think we may have too examine the year altogether and determine why the PS3 declined and the Xbox 360 increased. The 360 got a price decrease and a new slim model. Like last year, when the PS3 introduced it’s slim model there was a spike for a couple of months. Naturally the following year (being this year 2010) the market has leveled out thus could be the factor as to why YOY went down for the PS3 and why it went up this year due to MS releasing it’s slim and price drop. Next year I expect MS’s YOY to be in the negatives or closer to a 0 +/- because of this years price drop and slim model. If MS want’s to keep a + YOY than expect another price drop. Which I don’t see happening. As for software, well that once again comes down to people buying what people feel is worth their money. Shooters reign supreme this gen so naturally COD on the PS3 sold comparably to the 360 counterpart. This could be because the PS3 install base is increasing in North America, thus more potential buyers for games. @ Iceberg mboojigga didn’t come to anyones rescue, especially mine. He is just adding to the conversation. @ mikemadden For someone that has a hard time getting his head around grown-up conversations and says he is not going to comment in them, you sure do like to find your way into them. Once again adding absolutely nothing to the conversation.
MOTY, Well wait a minute? I don’t recall the fact that the 360 got a price drop. It got a new redesign and repackage but the price is still $199 and $299. Like you said here in the U.S. the PS3 got a sales bump in November and December 09. Since Jan the 360 has outsold it 11 straight months without any price drop since last year. The bump comes from the reintroduction of the 360 in the 5th year on the market and then November showing an increase by the momentum since June, Kinect and COD: BO.
@ mboojigga “I don’t recall the fact that the 360 got a price drop.” - You may be right. I can’t seem to find a price for the Elite. I think the Elite was phased out in place of the new Slim Model since every major outlet I look for doesn’t have them listed. But even without a price cut, it was the slim model that gave a spike in 2010′s YOY to help it boost to a positive YOY stat along with the Kinect bundles. I am just pointing out reasons for MS’s positive spike and Sony’s negative spike. I think these reasons are pretty solid rational reasons which we seem to agree upon.
@mikemadden, Americas is the largest market, by far mikemadden. Also, its where I/we live & we can see how goods are sold vs seeing pack-ins in another country that fabricate big sales when they’re giveaways, to post the illusion of great sales.
im also playing blood stone good game.going through it again on the hardest mode but they do the dummy closet which is kinda cheap. cant wait for uncharted 3.i think its the flagship game for ps3 owners. also cant wait for tomb raider picked up underworld a couple of weeks ago. both games will come out and be good.does not have to be this one is better then that one.why cant we just enjoy the two games on there own. sony has a bunch of good stuff coming next year.i could see some stuff getting delayed a little.if they delay gt5 there flagship racer they will delay anything. i forgot that we have weapon x on the staff.he must be the ceo of sony computer entertainment.
I like the show. you know.
Wait the warzone started at 10? I started listening at 1150. WTF! Why doesn’t this shit get posted?! Also why is there no section with the teamspeak info? Commmmmmmme on!
It was posted sixamp… it was posted Thursday the day before the show. Ill make sure a post goes up on thursday with the new server info and time of the show again just to give people a heads up.
Quake 3 arena was my crack on dreamcast and pc. Bring it bring it
This was a good show but alot of shit needed to be edited out like when everyone was disconnected or whatever and all the times people were getting cut off and their was crazy echoing throughout the show. If all those technical things didn’t fuck up the show I would have no complaints because the content was hella cool Big Frezek going at it with some chick and Hiphop making the Kratos in MK9 happen and then the whole racial argument I am glad that didn’t get to out of hand on the show but the comment section here is a different story.
LOLOL yeah… The echoing was kind of unavoidable… Big Frezek had some feedback coming through his mic and was having some mic issues with it muting itself… so when he had it working they kind of had to roll with it.
fuck it tor feels race wasnt a factor so im done with it. you guys can think what you want of “mikemadden” but i know and been through more than some of you may think. back to the games.
YOu probably haven’t been through more than me youngsta.
This warzone was pure mayhem. I love it lol.
best episode since they invited gamesonsmash
@iceberg32, I see you conveniently skipped “mboojiggas quote” of “GT is just as big as Halo”. “But that is how it goes when “not” everyone goes by facts or research”. See, even Torrence got suckered into thinking GT5 is bigger than it actually is. This is where SONY succeeds in packing in games: their exclusives sell like ****, then a year or 2 later, pack that **** in with the console, drop the price of the console, then sonysuperfans say “said” game has legs?! When in reality, its a friggin giveaway. Pack-ins are reasons investors use NPD, as they dont count pack-ins. If GT5 was as great as you guys thought, it would’ve sold 3.3 million in its first 24hours.
its been confirmed that killzone 3 will have split screen co-op. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=280541
“its been confirmed that killzone 3 will have split screen co-op.” Otherzinc never said it couldn’t be done. He said: “I’m so confident Killzone 3 wont have “Campaign Co-op”, I’ll buy your copy if it does! It just cant be done on the PS3 without the PS3 making sacrifices. This new co-op lie is almost as big as the Killzone 2 E3-05 Trailer. GG will go the bs way of “co-op side missions” that will be linear as a dorm room hallway.” However, you should strongly remember this quote mikemadden because IF Killzone 3 does have campaign co-op, I would be asking for that copy of Killzone 3.
If you want to compare games sold then yes GT is as big as Halo that is a fact. GT5 is selling better then GT4 at launch and GT4 ended up selling 11million, so give it a little time NPD for 1 week of sales is what you guy’s are using as an argument that the game isn’t selling well. You say “SONY succeeds in packing in games: their exclusives sell like ****, then a year or 2 later, pack that **** in with the console, drop the price of the console” this comment here makes you look stupid, Sony,Microsoft and Nintendo sell game+console bundles, WTF!!
i just bought a ps3 that came with 2 games. damn those pack ins. LOL!
So here is the question to you Iceberg32, Why did the PS3 have a YOY decline with Black Friday, GT5 and Black: BO(which sold the highest it ever has on the PS3) and only a %5 increase from last month? If you can’t discuss it and actually provide an answer other then talking shit, then why do you even bother commenting or caring what is being discussed in the comment section when sales and NPD was mentioned on this Warzone?
@ Iceberg. “If you want to compare games sold then yes GT is as big as Halo that is a fact” - You have to consider that the GT franchise sold over 3 consoles that have a combined 260 million console total. Halo has been out only for 2 consoles with a combined 65 million. So that is not a fair comparison. It’s only as big as Halo because it’s been around longer over more consoles and platforms with little competition until Forza was released on the 1st Xbox. “GT5 is selling better then GT4 at launch and GT4 ended up selling 11million” - You also have to understand that when GT4 came out, there were 120 million PS2′s on the market in order for GT4 to hit 11 million units sold. There are currently around 40 million PS3′s. So that’s 3x more PS2′s that GT4 had to sell on than PS3′s. Now I have predicted that GT5 will be the highest selling racing game this gen on the PS3 and 360 as well as sell 10 million lifetime. But that was when I was also under the impression that GT5 would be a AAA game with a 90+ meta rating. Once the list of features came out and the segregation of of the cars classes (premium vs. Standard). So now I am predicting that GT5 won’t sell pass 10 million but will come close. “give it a little time NPD for 1 week of sales is what you guy’s are using as an argument that the game isn’t selling well. ” - See, here is the problem. You compared the total sales of the GT franchise to the total sales of the Halo franchise but then tell us to wait regarding NPD’s 1st week sales. If we are going to compare Halo sales to GT sales, then we can compare 1st day sales. Halo is MS’s flagship franchise just like GT is Sony’s flagship title. As a flagship title, GT should have had sales relatively close to Halo’s on day 1 – day 7. So if we compare the 2 first week wise in sales, then GT5′s sales are pretty bad for such a high profile game and franchise. As for the packin’s I agree with you, every console maker does pack-in’s.
@man_of_the_year you said “You have to consider that the GT franchise sold over 3 consoles that have a combined 260 million console total. Halo has been out only for 2 consoles with a combined 65 million” I did realize that but I was just answering the question which was if the GT was as big as Halo and the answer is yes. Let me say that I never thought GT5 would sell like the other GT games I think it will sell 8 milion over some time. I do realize how many PS1 and PS2′s were out when the other GT games sold as well as they did and thats why I don’t think GT5 is selling bad at all. A few fanboys think that it’s not selling good because their own expectation were not meet but that doesn’t mean it’s not selling well.
@ Iceberg32 You’re right. GT5 is selling well, if GT5 had been just a regular IP and maybe you are even more correct about the fanboys expecting it to sell better than it currently is. Maybe the fanboys on both sides succumbed to the GT5 hype. But GT5 for the last 3 years has had nothing but “When Sony’s flagship title comes out it is going to propel the PS3 past the 360″ campaigns and comments running off of every Sony loyalists tongues. Even yourself stated that GT is as big as Halo, and you are basing that off of sales. I for one have said to many a Sony Fanboys prior to GT5′s release that it is no longer in a genre that once dominated the gaming industry and to not expect large sales. Also that the PS3 will NOT see 120 million units sold due to the Wii and 360 cutting into Sony’s market share from the once dominating PS1 and PS2. GT5 has a lot of new obstacles it has to hurdle over to accomplish what the earlier editions in the GT franchise didn’t have. I still stand that GT5 will be the highest selling racing game in the genre on either platform and will be Sony’s #1 selling Exclusive title by the end of this gen. However, it won’t hit the same sales mark that the other iterations of GT once accomplished.
@Man_Of_The_Year & mboojigga, Also, you must count Halo:Reach boosting numbers for September; you know, like the system seller GT5 wasn’t. And yes, I’ll buy his copy of Killzone 3, I’m confident SONY & GG are lying their @sses off as they always do. I’ll wait for the “we’re concentrating on a great story” comment: like I’m still waiting for interior crash damage in GT5. @Iceberg32, You just said “if you want to compare games sold then yes GT is as big as Halo that is a fact”? Is it? Or. Is that your & mikemaddens version of a fact? Meaning, your opinion! I know you & mikemadden hate this but lets throw in some facts for ****’s & giggles: Halo:Reach 3.3million September NPD with less than 2 weeks of sales. GT5 400,000 in November, a power month Released on the 24th, NPD. GT5 2.96O million WORLD WIDE, as of December 4th VGChartz & they count the letters on the friggin boxes! So youre right, if you compare WW totals it is almost as big as Halo. Also, that quote of mine to end your comment doesn’t make me look stupid, it means I understand investments & inventory giveaways. @mikemadden, Thats the way to go, get that pack-in PS3 w/Medal of Honor & Uncharted 2, smart buy; there’s also a GT5 pack-in at Best Buy. That’s 2 additional sales on VGChartz, no sales increase on NPD.
oh i got the LBP, modnation racer, and cars blueray bundle from bestbuy. plus it came with a $50 gift card. i saw the GT5 one to. if it was $299 like the others i would have choose that one.
@ Otherzinc “Also, you must count Halo:Reach boosting numbers for September; you know, like the system seller GT5 wasn’t.” You are right, because of the Halo Reach Launch, there was a spike, but the spike was pretty low considering the months before and after. Aug NPD – 356K Sept NPD – 483,989K (month of Halo Reach release) Oct NPD – 325K So the difference between Aug and Oct is 31K. While the spike in Sept compared to Aug was 127,989K. That’s not a very big spike or a consistent spike to really make a big different in the YOY, but a spike nonetheless as you can see it drops significantly in Oct by 158,989. So ya I agree that Reach had an impact for the positive YOY but I don’t think it was it’s main contributer.
@Man_Of_The_Year, Right, however, remember the 360 Short released in July, that increased sales greater than normal through August. Halo hit in September to keep sales higher than normal, then Fable 3 + Reach in October to keep momentum. Then: Kinect & Soccer Moms drove November through the roof. I believe this dominance will continue through December. Especially when other Soccer Moms play Kinect over Thanksgiving break. My wife had a few of her Soccer Mom friends over, I had to leave the house, I couldn’t take it!
@ otherZinc So what you are saying is according to NPD and YOY stats, MS released the proper games and peripherals along with a new console at the right time to generated so much momentum in the last few months that it’s keeping the sales of the 360 above traditional sales figures and propelling the 360 to have yet another strong year in 2011 sales wise for North America. I can agree with that. NPD doesn’t lie.
@Man_Of_The_Year, That’s exactly what I’m saying; way to analytically explain true business talk for the fanboys! And yes, people lie, numbers dont!
Smh sales numbers Again are of no direct benefit to gamers to me any argument that uses sales should be all directed to the highest sofware and selling platform the nintendo wii everything else is just faceplam gamers play games not stat bitch.
@ rblover69 I see you have something to say about something you don’t like to talk about. How original. Why is it the Sony Fanboys ALWAYS try to censor what is talked about in the Gaming Industry? The gaming industry has become bigger than any other outlet of entertainment. As a gamer, why should I have to censor my conversations that is gaming related and related to the industry because some less than intelligent and highly emotional “gamers” don’t like to talk about the business aspect of the gaming industry? If you don’t like talking about the business part of the gaming industry rblover69, then stay the f*** OUT. Simple as that. You making a comment about how you hate sales talk just makes you look like a butt hurt Sony loyalist and thus your “opinion” hold no weight. If you want to comment on the subject then I would suggest you being a bit more “constructive” than making childish comments like ” everything else is just faceplam gamers play games not stat bitch.” I have stock in MS and Sony, NOT Nintendo so I don’t really care much about Nintendo. If you want to talk business sales and stats on Nintendo’s side, I welcome the conversation. I haven’t done much research regarding the Wii (maybe because I don’t own one) but I will be more than happy too if it’s a conversation you would like to have. I guess the Sony Loyalists still have a hard time understanding what a grown up conversation is like. Thanks for your input rblover. I will file your comment under “another butt hurt Sony loyalist trying to censor sales conversations about the gaming industry.” Otherzinc, mboojigga, Iceberg and myself were all having a great, mature conversation before you stuck your 2 cents in (and you opinion is worth much less than 2 cents). Rblover and the rest of your Sony clan are more than welcome to join into a mature conversation about sales. If you feel awkward and that you don’t fit in with a conversation like what we were having, then feel free to not make another one of your ignorant comments and let us talk. But don’t try and censor us. Especially if the conversation is a good one. Nobody was getting hurt over it….well, except you and the rest of your loyalist clans.
@ rblover69 “sales numbers Again are of no direct benefit to gamers” - Tell that to the Steel Battalion community. I think they would have something different to say to you. Oh wait, I was apart of that community. Rblover69, your comment is full of ignorance. Had Steel Battalion sold more copies, the servers wouldn’t have been shut down do to a small community still playing the game. Now “gamers” (the same ones you think don’t care about sales because they are gamers), can’t play Steel Battalion over XLB and have to play it over 3rd party portals over the www like XBConnect. So to recap. More sales of SB = larger community = more people online = servers not being shut down = gamers being able to continue to play games. I hope that is not too complicating to follow. I dumbed it down to a 3rd grade level for ya. SALES MATTER PEOPLE !!!! If you enjoy a game then it’s important for that game to sell well in order to be supported by the developers. Developers are not going to support an IP that doesn’t sell well. Developers need the sales of their games in order to continue to support existing IP’s or create new IP’s while still staying in business.
@ rblover69, I don’t understand. Why comment about a subject you have no interest in. Please stop generalizing gamers into a group about points. AGAIN, some of us do actually have investments. AGAIN, Torrence brought the numbers up on the Warzone. Which is why I said last Friday why even bother bringing up the numbers in the first place. I don’t even see the point why Torrence brings them up when he doesn’t even go in detail about them. I mean he asked a question about PS3 numbers and why they were bad. If he had actually did research he wouldn’t have to ask the question of a somthing HE brought up on HIS show. So we are on topic to discuss it since it was brought up in the Warzone. Iceberg32 could have easily ignored any comments such as yourself could have. It isn’t hard. I don’t jump in conversations about games I don’t care to play. So I don’t even see how you decided to waste your time commenting on somthing you say you have no interest whatsoever in the first place. I enjoy games and stock when it benefits
mboo I’m not sure if you understand how proper discourse is done but I’m in every right to generalize my own views based on my own opinion . So with all due respect can you please stop telling grown ass men how to state there views on a given topic . Thanks
generalizations are present I’n every major conversation and it doesn’t take a rant propagated by rhetoric about things that truley do not matter to a true gamer I’n my opinion at all. Sales are a moot topic discussed only as a dick measurement leading only to arguments about numerical babble often used I’n the wrong context . Great games do not always sell well there are many examples of this , horrible games do sell there are many examples of this , unless a long drawn out dead end argument from people who benefit or work for the company in discussion then really it’s just comparing the latest incorrect statistic from one web source to another which doesn’t require any form of understanding nor entertainment. Your rants are just boring I’m sorry but then again that’s just me . 
that’s just my view on sales when it becomes a over the top discussion i avoid such annoyances as much as possible.
@ Rblover69, Again you are contradicting yourself. “that’s just my view on sales when it becomes a over the top discussion i avoid such annoyances as much as possible” You need to try harder if that is your view as you have pointed out many times in the past. I am not arguing with you or ranting about anything. But yet it is you who is going off topic and wanting to discuss about how you feel about discussions. Yet it only when certain people bring up a discussion that you decide you have to make a comment(again on somthing you say you have no interest in). Tor brought up the numbers and you were on the Warzone, how come u didn’t speak up and say what you are saying now? HipHop has made videos and articles about numbers. Terence Daniel is making articles about UK sales but no comment from you about that. So from what I can read your position of not caring or responding is only based on who is bringing up or discussing it. Again we are on topic regardless who decides they can’t act like a mature adult and discuss/debate. Hell your in no position to be talking about discussing anything as we have seen you hve no problem going back and forth with MOTY about anything GT5(which you could have easily ignored and chose not to) May I suggest you just not respond to me and end it since you have no interest in this discussion.
@mikemadden, Yep, & I’d give SONY credit for a GT5 sale because it isn’t a give away, they actually raised the price of the GT5 bundle to 379 for a 160gig. You’re paying for that copy of GT5.
@daxter im done with that topic. i do understand your point but disagree with some of it. i should havent said anything. its clear to me the kid still havent stepped off the porch.
“im done with that topic” then lets keep it that way. GG
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@rblover you should just let those guys be. 2011 is going to be a long rough year for them. the only thing they have to look forward to are npd numbers every month. compare sony first quarter exclusives to microsoft.youre going to hear a lot of sale talk trust me and you will see these quotes all the time next year. “microsoft doesnt show their games until e3″ “exclusives dont matter”
Typical Sony Fanboy comment. ” 2011 is going to be a long rough year for them.” and then says “compare sony first quarter exclusives to microsoft” So because of Sony’s 1st quarter exclusive releases, then MS most obviously will have an entire rough year. LOL I just can’t stop laughing at this Sony Fanboy Mentality. January – LBP 2 February – Killzone 3 March – ??? April – ??? Ya a killer exclusive line up (although I am looking forward to KZ3) LBP sold 3.88 million Killzone 2 – 2.48 million. LOL ya a couple of heavy hitters coming out in the 1st quarter. The Sony community are greatly looking forward to the next iteration of those games since they all bought them. LOL. Gears 3 ALONE will outsell those 2 games COMBINED because there are more fans of the Gears series than there are for LBP and Killzone put together. LOL This is where you say “well they are anticipated by me and I am all that matters”. LOL. See you think those couple of games coming out in the 1st quarter are big titles. But they’re not. See in order for them to be big, they have to sell. And they have to sell the same numbers as titles that actually sell BIG numbers like Halo, MGS, Gears, COD. Those titles are only BIG to the small community that bought LBP and KZ2. Other than that small community, those games are NOT big.
Exclusives don’t matter to a multi-console owner. They also don’t matter to a person who buys more multiplats than exclusives. Just keeping things in perspective.
What? A Torrence, stay out of this until youre man enough to bring “The Warzone” back to WARZONE Status! You had 5 hours to discuss this, OOG & Ice tried but you deflated a great back & forth that was brewing. So, until you bring the “The Warzone” back, stay away from big boy talk!
“Exclusives don’t matter to a multi-console owner.” - Exactly. “They also don’t matter to a person who buys more multiplats than exclusives.” - This could depend on the persons perspective. Multiplats could be looked as “time/space fillers”. A fan of a particular exclusive franchise say….Uncharted may just play multiplats because they are there to fill in the time until the next Uncharted game comes out. Since there are always more more multiplats than exclusives released a year then it’s easier for people to play more multiplats until their favorite exclusive comes out. However I do agree with your comment, but others may not.
January – LBP 2 February – Killzone 3 March – MLB the show, socom 4 April – sorcery, new motorstorm first thats too many months for quarter one but ok. and im not looking past march right now. but i fixed your post for you. now show me what microsoft has. keep playing those sales. LOL! @torrence i own all the consoles and exclusives matter to me.
OH!!! I thought that going by your comment “2011 is going to be a long rough year for them.” you were referring to “big” games. My mistake. I didn’t know you were also talking about average games. Also, I can’t seem to find ANY confirmed release dates for MLB, Socom, Sorcery or Mortorstorm from the developers. Do you have some kind of inside scoop? Please provide your sources as to where you are getting confirmed dates for those games. Since you have the game “sorcery” in that list, I am guessing you are also accepting motion control games as a means to justify the amount of exclusives. Ok. As long as you are recognizing motion control games as a valid game regardless of what demographics it’s catering too. (bookmarked for future debates). “i own all the consoles and exclusives matter to me.” - Told you Torrence.
march is baseball month dude. you didnt answer my question. what does microsoft have for jan, feb, march.
Microsoft has Brink, Dead Space 2 and Test Drive Unlimited 2 me thinks.
Torrence already answered the question. You have yet to answer mine. Where are your sources with CONFIRMED dates for the releases of MLB, Socom, Sorcery or Mortorstorm?
how do you stomp a xbot in 2011? ask him about exclusive games for the year! the last 5 mlb the show games was released in march.
“how do you stomp a xbot in 2011? ask him about exclusive games for the year!” How do you frustrate a Sony Fanboy in 2010? Ask him to list the release dates for PS3 exclusives in 2011.
@mikemadden since you own all consoles, explain to us why exclusives matter to you.
1) i spent $900 on sony console and $500 on microsoft console. that is a lot of money. i want these companies to make me games i want to play. if one company is sitting on their ass and not giving me games there is a problem. 2) when a developer only has to focus on one console they have the best chance to get all they can out it. when doing multi platform your resources are split.
I can agree with mikemadden on that. You paid money and you want the best products that are made for that console. In regards to if one of the companies are sitting on their asses, the only company I know of that was sitting on their asses was Sony at Launch. The PS3 didn`t have any games for like the fist year yet you still bought a PS3 so a system having no games didn`t seem to bother you then. Since then, both companies have been releasing an equal amount of exclusives per year. Either from 1st, 2nd or 3rd parties. I don`t understand what is with you and thinking the 360 has no games. MS have said they have a lot of surprises lined up for this year, just because they don`t blow their load all at once like what Sony does doesn`t mean you should count them out. Every year is the same with your kind, you think MS have no games for X year and at the end of the year, it turns out that both systems release the same amount of exclusives. Microsoft Promises More Reveals in 2011 http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/114/1140358p1.html
“just because they don`t blow their load all at once” LOL! i knew it was coming. so what we have to wait 6 months until e3? and sad thing is M$ will be showing more gears and forza. yea the same shit they did last year! you cant name 1 exclusive game for xbox in Q1.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Some of the best games this gen are multiplatform and again, you have all consoles so you can buy what you want. Whether or not a game is exclusive shouldn’t matter to you. Do you NOT buy multiplats?
@ mikemadden So what if MS likes to wait till Feb or E3? You are still going to get the games they announce within the year. Sony announces games that don’t have release dates. Yet you accept what they announce as if it’s coming out this year when time and time again, Sony delays games or announces the release date that is for the next year. At least MS announces games that are coming out in the current year and have a greater expectation that it won’t be delayed. Even after me telling you and providing you a link straight from MS where they say they have a lot of surprises in store for 360 owners this year, you STILL ignore them and say they will only talk about Forza and Gears. Also note that Forza 4 was just announced last week and now you are saying that is all they are going to talk about. You just simply have a hate for MS and discredit them while giving Sony a free pass. I cannot name an exclusive title for Q1 from MS. How many Q4 titles can you name from Sony….CONFIRMED dates? We already know Gears and Forza 4 will be released in November. And you have STILL not provided me a source as to confirmed dates for the games you list as coming out in Q1. Could it because there is no confirmed date and you are just validating my point of Sony announcing games without release dates? Sure seems like it.
LOL!!! Yeah, let me get some of this: Yeah, SONY fans are = to Cub Fans with the “We’ll get-em next year” or “Wait til next year”! Well the Chicago Cubs have been getting em next year & waiting til next year for more that 100 Years! Wake Up mikemadden, #’s dont lie, people do!
I am a Leafs fan so I know all about the “this year is our year” mentality. I have been saying it for the last 10 years. But at least I know the difference between fact and fiction. I know the Leafs are not going to be in the play offs for about another 3 years but I still support them as they are my home team. These Sony fanboys are completely lost in a delusional state. Games with poor sales are suddenly HUGE titles with an even bigger following. LOL. When Modnation racers 2 comes out, it will be “it’s all over for MS and the fanboys, another huge Sony exclusive” LOL.
@otherZinc Wow Wow Wow pump your brakes a little bit, you are getting to excited You said ” Yeah, SONY fans are = to Cub Fans with the “We’ll get-em next year” or “Wait til next year”! ” and “Well the Chicago Cubs have been getting em next year & waiting til next year for more that 100 Years!” LOL, Sony has dominated the last two generations of console gameing !! If your going to compare them to a baseball team then they are the New York Yankees !! HOMERUN !!
can you tell me how to insert numbers into my console so i can play them?
“can you tell me how to insert numbers into my console so i can play them?” - Can someone tell me how to insert a game into my console if it doesn’t exist because earlier IP’s didn’t sell enough for the developer to create the game that I am trying to put into my console?
warhawk sold 500k – 750k. its getting a sequel. yet you laugh at 2 million. stop acting like a game has to sale 4-10 million for a sequel. just look at the ps3 exclusive this year. how many has sold 4 or 5 million?
Ah the chirpings of A Sony Fanboy who knows little about the industry… “warhawk sold 500k – 750k. its getting a sequel.” Who made Warhawk? Answer: Incognito Entertainment Who is making Starhawk? Answer: LightBox Interactive So a new developing team from a new developing company is making the sequel. NOT the same developers. And what happened to Incognito Entertainment? GONE. So your point is invalid and this example only assists my argument. Had Warhawk actually had higher sales, Incognito Entertainment may still be around. Due to lack of revenue from warhawk, maybe the developers would still be around under that company name. So it took a whole new developer to create a sequel which MAY have more resources available to them. If you still think sales don’t matter, let me ask you this. Have you played Haze 2? Have you played ANY OTHER GAME released from Free Radical since Haze? NOPE you haven’t. And why do you think that is? Because do to piss poor sales, Free Radical went into financial troubles and closed their doors only to be bought up by Crytek and renamed Crytek UK. So “gamers” that enjoyed HAZE didn’t get ANY DLC, a sequel OR any other game from their favorite developer. Hey how was LAIR 2? What? What do you mean you haven’t played it? Oh that’s right, IT DOESN’T EXIST. Wonder why? Oh maybe because of lack of LAIR sales there was no revenue to create a sequel. Those gamers who really enjoyed LAIR, like me, didn’t get any DLC to extend the games life, NOR did I get anything after that since Factor 5 ALSO closed their doors. SALES MATTER PEOPLE !!! To business enthusiasts and Gamers.
LOL THAT was a good one.
@rblover & mikemadden, Look at the bright side: Torrence will protect you from terrible NPD SONY numbers & the “several” reasons the so-called AAA GT5 didn’t live up to AAA status by not elaborating on the facts of the two situations, & this is “The Warzone”. The Warzone, a place where HipHop dissected & discredited Forza 3 (on past Warzone podcasts when it was The Warzone), a game that GT5 clearly didn’t live up to. So, at least you two can enjoy The Warzone?, without feeling bad. However, I would’ve loved to hear HipHop speak on everything GT5 didn’t have vs the features the game released with.
@Man_Of_The_Year, Absolutely, “SALES MATTER PEOPLE!!!!”, I agree 100%. I’m still disappointed there’s no announcement for Brute Force 2! Loved that game! My cousin would bring his XBOX & Brute Force over to play co-op system link, 2 tv’s.
Brute Force was awesome. Some of the best graphics at the time. It’s a shame that more copies didn’t sell. I tried to play some multiplayer online over XBL and managed to find 1 other person to play against. Needless to say, I only managed to play 1 online game. LOL SALES MATTER, had more people bought the game there would have been more people to play with online. Thus as a gamer, I could have had a longer, more satisfying gaming experience.
Sales only matter to the publishers. You can’t expect everything to have a sequel. Look at Heavenly Sword. Greatest PS3 game ever made and no one bought it. Ninja Gaiden 2, no one bought it. And when I say no one, I mean it takes MONTHS for them to sell significant numbers. At least NG got sequels.
“Sales only matter to the publishers.” Tell that to those who wanted a HAZE 2, or a LAIR 2. How about that DLC for Heavenly Sword? Maybe if the game had sold better there would have been more support for the IP. “You can’t expect everything to have a sequel” And why not? If an IP sells well, why wouldn’t the developers continue that franchise? Why wouldn’t developers continue supporting a franchise to continue with the high sales and revenue and give the fans of a franchise more of what they like playing? Larger sales creates a fanbase for that IP. Developers like to continue creating IP’s because they know they have an established market for that franchise and can forecast high sales. That alone is good ol’ fashion smart business. Do you not think that if Heavenly Sword had higher sales, that maybe there would have been a sequel? Or maybe DLC? As a gamer, I enjoy DLC and sequels to games I like. SO sales for an IP do matter because it could lead to future installments of the IP’s I like and continued support for the IP. So I disagree with your comment “Sales only matter to the publishers.” As a gamer, I want a game that I enjoy to sell big so that it has a higher chance of future support from those developers via DLC or a sequel.
Tor heavenly sword is actually one of the greatest games on any console not just ps3 unless you know of it’s 360 counterpart I’d like to play it
Good point. However, ME1 is an emotional ride at points just like HS.
Tor if sales only matter to the publisher then why do you even bother pointing out numbers when NPD rolls around. Why is there articles about weekly UK sales? What publisher is coming her to get the latest sales information that is posted on your site or what you bring up in the Warzone?
I post the sales numbers because it’s news. No other reason. We are all interested in sales, that’s obvious. However, sales don’t make games better. Xbots play the sales game because it’s factual, but it doesn’t really win their argument. PSdroids play the quality game, but it doesn’t really win their argument because that’s all subjective. I’m not gonna sit here and argue sales, I’m just gonna tell you what they are. I’m also not gonna sit here and lay down an edict that all exclusive games are better than multiplats or argue which system has more exclusives when that doesn’t matter to me. The only time exclusives matter is when you can’t play them….one more time. The only time exclusives matter is when you can’t play them.
What is with the contradictions today. Tor, yes the numbers are new. Yet you made a comment about the sales numbers of the PS3 and don’t discuss it. Also my comment about the contradiction that you won’t argue/discuss/debate the numbers when this is the WARZONE. Then u say the publishers only care about the numbers or benefit from them when that is not true. Some of us consumers benefit from the numbers for various reasons like MOTY stated and what I stated earlier. As for exclusives I agree when I am a PC/PS3/360 owner who plays all the games. The arguement is a waste when MS has made their strategy very clear. They focus on multiplat games and few in-house exclusives. Those few exclusives in terms of good money invested seems to be a better strategy and return vs Sony’s position. MS has had success in this strategy which has brought them to where they are today.
@mboojigga you dont sound like a gamer to me.
Okay? I don’t give a shit if I don’t sound like a gamer. I have stated before I am comfortable What does a gamer sound like exactly? I game on the PC/PS3/360. Gamertag: REDHEMI300C PSN: Mrblacknut You already have had this information. So feel free to check what games I have played or currently playing. By the way, I don’t know how the hell you come to the conclusion who are gamers when we are at a damn blog talking about everything related games or listening to a podcast about games. I do know that I am an adult who can have a discussion just about anything without someones feelings getting hurt over the discussion. Sorry that to me is just a dumb ass comment from you. But expected so no surprise.
@ Torrence “We are all interested in sales, that’s obvious. However, sales don’t make games better. Xbots play the sales game because it’s factual, but it doesn’t really win their argument. PSdroids play the quality game, but it doesn’t really win their argument because that’s all subjective.” 1. YES!! We are all interested in sales. So the conversation about sales should NEVER be censored on this site or be treated as Taboo. 2. You are right, sales DON’T make games better. Sales in no shape or form can make a game better. However Sales are a means of measurement as to the amount of demand for that game, thus since it’s a tool for measurement, can then be used to compare against other games on the market within the same genre to determine which has the greater demand for that game. 3. Xbots use sales because it “FACTUAL”. Key Word “FACTUAL” Ps3 Droids don’t use “QUALITY” as their argument, they use “GRAPHICS” as their tool of measurement as to what “QUALITY” is. This as you said is OPINION. Factual vs. Opinion. And right there you have the differences between the mentalities of the 2 fanboys. I will always agree with the FACTUAL over the OPINIONATED any day.
I have read a lot of comments from “gamers” who said “sales don’t matter” or “sales only matter to developers” or “sales only matter to xbots” or “gamers don’t care about sales” yet I have given more than enough evidence as to WHY sales do matter and not 1 person has given any kind of rational or logical response as to WHY sales don’t matter. Here are my arguments as to WHY sales matter to a gamer. 1. Increases the chances of future IP`s from the developer 2. Increases the chances of a future IP to continue in particular franchise 3. Increases the size of the community to play with (more competition) 4. Increases the chances for continued support for the IP ie. DLC or keeping the servers up. 5. Keeps your favorite developers in business Please, can anyone here explain WHY sales don’t matter to a gamer. Still waiting for a response from a “gamer” as to why sales shouldn`t matter to a “gamer” rather than phantom disagrees.
You make good points but I would rather see more new IP’s than sequels. Mass Effect games are GOOD sequels. Music game sequels are garbage. Dead or Alive sequels, garbage, SFIV sequels, garbage!
I understand. I too would like to see more new IP’s, but in order to have “new” IP’s there must have been old IP’s. And those old IP’s have to sell in order for the developers to have enough resources to create those “new” IP’s. Now you saying “Music games sequels are garbage. Dead or Alive sequels, garbage, SFIV sequels, garbage” are all opinions. Some people LIVE by those music games or are die hard DoA fans or SF fans. As can be seen by the sales. The reason they keep pumping those sequels out is because they know there is an established market/fanbase to sell them to. With the constant generation of new Revenue from continuing to develop for existing franchises, the Developers can then create a new IP. If the IP fails to sell well, the developer still has the revenue coming in from already established IP’s.
Sales matter to a gamer if you want a sequel or if you want dlc but sales do not matter when describing how great a game is. Example I have already seen people saying “Uncharted 3 is going to be a great game” and then you see people say ” it won’t sell like Halo” see this is were sales don’t matter. Sales don’t tell you that a game is good or bad they it tell you that the game sold good or not, and this is how I see most arguments go down when numbers are being used. Is Wii Sports better than Halo Reach because it has sold more?Is GT5 better then Forza 3 because it will sell more? Is Call of Duty better then Battle field because it sells more? So see when saying this game is better then that game or that a game is good or bad no I don’t see why sales matter. But yes sales to matter when a game is a good or great game to you and you want more.
“Sales matter to a gamer if you want a sequel or if you want dlc but sales do not matter when describing how great a game is.” Sales is an indicator of demand for that game. Sales don’t right out tell you if a game is good or not. I liked LBP which is one of the PS3′s highest ranked games and it sold far less than what I feel it should. However, the sales for that game is an indicator the kind of demand out there that wants that kind of game. It could be the greatest game ever developed, but if nobody is interested in that kind of game then they won’t buy it regardless of how high the reviews are. People buy what the people want. So if a consumer sees 2 competing games for the same price on the shelf and the majority buys game A over game B, it’s an indication that the people WANT what game A is offering MORE than what game B is offering. You can’t go by 1 person’s opinion about what we as individuals feel what is a good game or what is not since individuals have different opinions. You have to look at the collective opinions from the entire market. This is why survey’s don’t take 1 persons answers and use them as a source for marketing. They take a large segment and average out the answers. We have to look at the entire sales of the the market to determine what people are interested in and are willing to spend their money on. If I say Halo Reach is a better game than Killzone 2, then anyone can debate with me because it’s my opinion vs. theirs. But they can’t debate that MORE people chose Halo Reach over Killzone 2 because the collective market voted which game they prefer by voting with their wallets. All I am trying to do is open peoples minds to recognize that as a gamer, sales matter. If great games weren’t released, then gamers wouldn’t have great games to play and experience. Games don’t grow on trees, they cost millions of dollars and many man hours to create. Gamers NEED to support the industry by buying games and DLC so that developers have the resources to create and developer new IP’s or continue with existing IP’s.
@man_of_the_Year I could take alot of quotes from your comment but I just want to keep this short so I am not going to take the time to pull all the quotes. Let me just say that your response sounds like your coming from a publisher or developers point of view and you asked for a “gamers” response as to why numbers don’t matter and that is how I answered your question as a “gamer”. I will pull one quote to respond to real quick you said” Games don’t grow on trees, they cost millions of dollars and many man hours to create. Gamers NEED to support the industry by buying games and DLC” yes gamers do if they want more of a game they like I said that in my comment above. The thing is that alot of fanboys act like if a game doesn’t sell 5 million or more then it didn’t sell great when in reality selling 1- 2million means a game has sold good and 3 million or more means it has sold great of course it depends how much a game cost to make but for the most part 2 million sold pretty much means their wil a sequel.
“Let me just say that your response sounds like your coming from a publisher or developers point of view and you asked for a “gamers” response as to why numbers don’t matter and that is how I answered your question as a “gamer”.” - You understand that you already agreed with me that sales to gamers do matter. “Sales matter to a gamer if you want a sequel or if you want dlc” - It doesn’t matter which aspect of sales the argument is, you are agreeing as a “gamer” that the sales of games do matter if you want developers to continue to support the industry with games. I asked “can anyone here explain WHY sales don’t matter to a gamer.” and what you did was agree that sales do matter. “The thing is that alot of fanboys act like if a game doesn’t sell 5 million or more then it didn’t sell great when in reality selling 1- 2million means a game has sold good and 3 million or more means it has sold great of course it depends how much a game cost to make but for the most part 2 million sold pretty much means their wil a sequel.” - What “gamers” don’t realize is that they are enjoying great games because “gamers” are supporting the industry by buying games. It’s a cycle and a very important one at that. In order to play games, gamers have to buy them. If as a gamer you want to enjoy games, then you need to support the developers and the industry by buying games. The more sales a title gets, the greater the chances the developers will support that game/franchise/introduce new IP’s. Now if a game sells 2 – 3 million yes that is great. But there is a kind of “expectation” behind big titles to sell big numbers. Sure if you look at a game and it sells 3 million copies, then that is awesome for a game as more than likely the game generated enough revenue for the developer to create a new IP or continue with the current IP. However, if you “compare” sales to other sales from games within the same genre, then you can make a valid comparison as to which title the people prefer. Sales are an indicator as to what the people want; what holds more “value” or “quality” to the people and what the people feel is best suited to spend their hard earned money on. Sure 3 million sales is great. But 10 million sales is better. And you have to ask yourself, WHY are people buying game A 3x more often than game B if they are both priced the same in the same genre? When you can answer that question, you will then understand why A) Sales matter to gamers and B) Why sales is a measurement with what consumers feel is of better value for spending their hard earned money on. See, who are you or I to tell each other which game is better? We could have difference opinions. You have to look at total sales for games within the same genre. People like us represent a very very small % of the gaming demographics. We go on websites, discuss games, research news and read about development. But the mass majority don’t. They go into a store and buy a game. So if the masses are going into a store and buying more copies of game A over game B, then the greater consumer demographics have spoken as to what game is better than the other within the same gaming genre.
“I asked “can anyone here explain WHY sales don’t matter to a gamer.” and what you did was agree that sales do matter.” I already explained in my opinion why sales matter and when they don’t matter, go reread my comment. You also say ” Sure if you look at a game and it sells 3 million copies, then that is awesome for a game as more than likely the game generated enough revenue for the developer to create a new IP or continue with the current IP” Exactly, and that is all that matters to a “gamer”. And lastly you say “When you can answer that question, you will then understand why A) Sales matter to gamers and B) Why sales is a measurement with what consumers feel is of better value for spending their hard earned money on.” A) I already knew why sales matter and gave examples of when numbers don’t matter B) No sales do not tell people what is worth their money, it tells people that something is popular.I said before that sales don’t tell you that a game is good or bad yet people use sales as an argument to do.
@ Iceberg “No sales do not tell people what is worth their money, it tells people that something is popular.I said before that sales don’t tell you that a game is good or bad yet people use sales as an argument to do.” - I didn’t say sales tell you what is better. I said: “sales is a measurement with what consumers feel is of better value for spending their hard earned money on.” Sales is a MEASUREMENT. It measures the demand for product worth in the eyes of the consumer. A product wouldn’t be popular unless there was a reason for consumers to purchase it. Going by your rational, then Halo 3 is more “popular” than Killzone 2. How did Halo 3 become more popular than Killzone 2? If people didn’t like the Halo franchise then they wouldn’t have bought Halo 3. If Halo 3 was a terrible game, then sales wouldn’t be 11 million right now. Popularity of a product is a direct comparison to it’s quality or lack thereof. Vampire Rain became popular because it was a bad game, thus nobody bought it. Halo 3 is a popular game because people enjoy it and why it’s at 11 million units sold. Quality is a form of popularity. If a game is of high quality, then people will buy it thus making it more and more popular. Also you can’t argue “well sales only matter to gamers in this particular scenario but not in this particular scenario”. Sales matters across the board. As a gamer you want new IP’s, you want developer support for existing IP’s and you want IP’s to continue with a particular franchise. Developers need your support so that they can continue to develop games. There is no segregation for arguments as why sales do and do not matter to gamers. As long as you admitted that they do, then you admitted they do. You have NOT given a rational reason as to why they don’t. You are only saying sales is not an indicator as to what is quality. That is a different argument and one that I answered just above. But you have NOT given a good reason as to why sales don’t matter to a gamer.
@MOTY i will assume when you say Q4 you mean sept, oct, nov because dec is dead for games. i know 2 ps3 exclusives with released date in Q4. resistance 3 (9-06-10) and the mighty uncharted 3 (11-01-10). now please give me the dates of forza 4 and gears 3. see you bots all way say “At least MS announces games that are coming out in the current year and have a greater expectation that it won’t be delayed.”. but i remember seeing gears 3 and forza at 2010s e3. in fact forza showed some of the same footage form e3 on their VGA trailer. how sad is that? because you still havent named any exclusives for Q1 we agree M$ has nothing right? at least for jan we can say there wont be any exclusives. mlb the show 2011- 03/03/11 http://www.gamefocus.ca/news/12204 socom 4- Q1 http://ps3.ign.com/objects/019/019332.html motorstorm apocalypse- Q2 (i was wrong here if it isnt out in april) If you dont have a ps3 in 2011 youre half ass gaming. FACT! i would love to see those gears 3 and forza dates. LOL!
“now please give me the dates of forza 4 and gears 3.” Gears 3 – Sep 30, 2011 Forza 4 – Sept 30, 2011 http://xbox360.ign.com/index/upcoming.html (if you can use Socom’s Q1 on IGN as a reference, then so can I) “but i remember seeing gears 3 and forza at 2010s e3.” At E3, Cliff from EPIC said Gears 3 would be a 2011 release. He didn’t lie. He gave a date. It was pushed back for more polish but it is still releasing in 2011. As for Forza, what you saw was a tech demo for Kinect and how it will be utilized in the next Forza game. It was not a Forza announcement. The Forza announcement came at the VGA’s. As for using the same clip in the VGA’s official Forza 4 trailer, what is the problem with that? It was a clip to show that Kinects functionality will also be in the game. I don’t understand why you would have an issue with that. What is really sad is complaining about 4 seconds in a 3 minute trailer using demonstrating a feature that was shown a year ago. I already responded to you that there are no MS exclusive games yet announced for Q1. But that doesn’t mean that MS doesn’t have any planned. Like I said, MS have said they have a few tricks up their sleeves that you don’t know about yet. Don’t be afraid to read the link I gave you. Why don’t you complain AFTER the Q1 that MS didn’t have anything. Eight now you are just complaining that MS haven’t announced anything. But what does it matter if MS haven’t announced anything for Q1? There will be plenty of great games to play like Dead space 2. I don’t understand you Sony fanboys. You say the same thing every year like clockwork, “MS have no games, look at the PS3 line up” and then by the end of the year, both platforms release the same amount of exclusives while the 360 ends up releasing higher rated exclusives that actually sell more. What happened to Quality over Quantity? And for someone who just bought GT5 and claiming it’s GOTY, why are you so eager to have so many games release in Q1? Are you already bored of your GOTY in only 1 month?
Here is a GREAT example as to why SALES MATTERS TO GAMERS. http://www.thebitbag.com/forumz/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=271 Just want to give a shout out to Topgeareasy for providing this perfect example which helps my argument. Here is another great example courtesy of Topgeareasy as to why sales matter to gamers. More sales = more gamers with the game = more players to play with and not look like an out of place gamer just trying to play a game. http://www.thebitbag.com/forumz/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=140
I’ll shut both of you up during tonight’s show.
I hope on your show you admit that you recognize that sales matter to gamers, like how you admitted I made some good points. Gamers may not realize it at first, but if you understand the nature of the business, then you as a gamer will understand you need to continue to support the industry by buying games. Gamers need developers to make games, and developers need gamers to buy them. Without the support from the gamers, then developers don’t have the resources to make more games. How many games would you be playing if everyone pirated?
MOTY, Sales can also be affected by smart marketing. I think the real indicator of a game is when it sells thru word of mouth. Take Uncharted Drakes Fortune, game came out probably sold less than 100,000 day one, but slowly gathered a cult following that thru word of mouth sold enough for a sequal. Which by the time U2 came out already had a good ammount of a fanbase, now that fanbase and media attention the game garnered thru the many awards it won. I imagine U3 when it launches will do very well first day, all with out a halo marketting budget not taking anything from that franchise it earned its stripes. Many of the quirks you have with ps3 exclusives, is because your under the assumption that because they dont sell 5 million first day they flopp. Not the case i think its just different business practice maybe cultural i dont know. Microsoft being an american company, also home of the fast food nation i want it now mentality. Exclusive market the hell out of it get the majority of sales first day. Sony japanese company which ive seen in documentaries have recepies prepared that just a dish might take a week or so to prepare. Many of the games you consider flops on the ps3 might not of sold alot first day, but by now have sold a couple of millions, that theyve warranted a sequal. And the way i see it some of this risky titles like M.A.G. which now has reached one million in sales, which too many here means it was trash (i own and play it just as much and more as my other shooters i also own Halo Reach) Your being closed minded and dont see the bigger picture M.A.G while not going mainstream is a success and ill explain why, you see a flop. But if you look at the big picture i see the laid working foundation for a stable, future MMO’s infastructure So if Microsoft thinks of getting an MMO, sony been there went thru the trial and error, and already has the upper hand. Now ill leave you too ponder on that for a moment while, i go get my feet wet on that DC online beta on my ps3.
“MOTY, Sales can also be affected by smart marketing. I think the real indicator of a game is when it sells thru word of mouth.” - Smart marketing will only get you so far. Word of mouth easily counters smart marketing. If a game is not as good as the marketing perceives it be, then the marketing was a failure. “Take Uncharted Drakes Fortune, game came out probably sold less than 100,000 day one, but slowly gathered a cult following that thru word of mouth sold enough for a sequal.” - When Uncharted was released, the PS3 was doing terrible sales wise. There wasn’t enough install base for large sales. It had nothing to do with word of mouth. There was plenty of info all over the internet about the game. Sales increased due to an increasing install base as well as bundles. “Which by the time U2 came out already had a good ammount of a fanbase, now that fanbase and media attention the game garnered thru the many awards it won.” - Uncharted 2 didn’t win awards do to fanbase. It won because it was the best game released that year compared to others. Fanbases don’t impact how a game is developed. If awards were generated by fanbases, Halo 3 and Halo Reach would have won more awards than they have. “I imagine U3 when it launches will do very well first day, all with out a halo marketting budget not taking anything from that franchise it earned its stripes.” - Uncharted 3 has a good size fanbase and will do well on release day because those fans will buy it. There is no doubt. “Many of the quirks you have with ps3 exclusives, is because your under the assumption that because they dont sell 5 million first day they flopp. Not the case i think its just different business practice maybe cultural i dont know.” - I have never said that if a PS3 exclusive doesn’t sell 5 million or anything around there that the game is a flop. I said, If a big name title doesn’t sell to expectations, then it’s an indicator that it is not a game the gaming demographics are into. A game doesn’t not flop if it generates enough revenue to the developers so that they can support the game and create more IP’s. If a game doesn’t live up to it’s high expectations, then it’s a disappointment. I don’t expect Modnation racers to hit 5 million. But if it did, thats awesome and unforeseen. If GT5 doesn’t hit 5 million copies, then it’s a title that is a HUGE disappointment, even if the developers break even. GT5 is SONY’s #1 franchise and a flag ship title. There are expectations for bag name titles. I have no issues with PS3 exclusives, I have issues with PS3 fanboys who proclaim PS3 exclusives are the best games on the market. There is a big difference there. “Microsoft being an american company, also home of the fast food nation i want it now mentality. Exclusive market the hell out of it get the majority of sales first day.” - You are generalizing an entire country. Japan has the same mentality as Americans. if they are excited enough for a product, they will run out there and buy it right away and have no problems standing in line. Eg. GT5, Street Fighter 4, Resident Evil 5, Monster Hunter, MGS4. “Many of the games you consider flops on the ps3 might not of sold alot first day, but by now have sold a couple of millions, that theyve warranted a sequal.” - Again, you claim I have used the term “flop”. I have not said the game was a flop. if a game generates enough revenue, the the developers can decide if it warrants a sequel or not. A couple million copies sold is a good number and usually earns enough revenue to support or create new or existing IP’s. Again, I don’t say games flop, I say if they are Big name franchises and they fail to meet high expectations, then they are a disappointment. “Your being closed minded and dont see the bigger picture M.A.G while not going mainstream is a success and ill explain why, you see a flop. But if you look at the big picture i see the laid working foundation for a stable, future MMO’s infastructure” - Where are you getting that I said M.A.G was a flop? You are the one bringing M.A.G into this. M.A.G. is not a high profile exclusive. It’s just a shooter that has 256 players playing online. You are now trying to create an argument that was not there. And M.A.G. hitting 1 million units sold is not something to be proud of. M.A.G. is in the #1 genre this gen. Shooters. Don’t try and justify M.A.G as a success. To the developers it may have been. They may have regained their investments, but it is not a high profile game nor did it sell as one. “So if Microsoft thinks of getting an MMO, sony been there went thru the trial and error, and already has the upper hand.” - What does that have ANYTHING to do with with…well anything. that whole comment come out of left field. And last time I checked, there was an MMO on the 360. Actually, there are a couple. So what are you talking about “upper hand” crap. It doesn’t matter WHO makes an MMO, just as long as that kind of genre is available on either console. Your comment is a very juvenile comment. “Now ill leave you too ponder on that for a moment while, i go get my feet wet on that DC online beta on my ps3.” - Ponder? Your whole comment holds absolutely no merits to my question. You went on about things that have nothing to do with my question. You took all that time to write up this whole response yet, looking at it, it seems you seemed to have gotten a bit side tracked and forgot what your point even was. You even went from accusing me of saying things I didn’t say just to assist yourself in your own argument. Now let me leave you with this to ponder. What does your comment have anything to do with me asking the question: Would a “gamer” please tell me why sales DON’T matter to Gamers. I have given you reasons why I feel sales DO matter as a gamer, now tell me why sales DON’T matter as a gamer.