On today’s show we once again tackle the native 1080p argument. I stress my points as to why it shouldn’t matter to gamers if it’s native or upscaled. Preference is one thing, but if resolution isn’t stopping us from purchasing certain games, does it really matter? Also on this show:
* How to achieve N4G happiness (Torrence)
* Red Faction impressions (Torrence)
* Brink impressions (Hiphopgamer & Torrence)
* Quantum impressions (Hiphopgamer)
* G4TV possibly coming off the air (Hiphopgamer)
* And much much more…
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screw it ill take 720p upscaled to 1080p with 60fps over a native 1080p 30 fps copy of the same game………. yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
o btw tor your newer entries an older entries tab are on the wrong pages … technically older entries tab should be on this post page
Blackout 2 jams.
@ Da_Dios (June 16, 2009 at 6:56 pm)
QUOTE: “I have never seen HDV record to the 1920×1080 format always 1440×1080.”
Sony might say on a brochure somewhere that their 1080i cam records at 1440×1080, but 1080i is defined as 1920×1080 – interlaced. The stuff you mention is more likely just a hardware limitation of the cam. You certainly can’t use this HDV / camera stuff to justify any sort of argument here.
QUOTE: “If you had a interlaced lens and captured video it would still ”
LOL. What does an interlaced lens look like? I bet it doesn’t look as good as my interlaced windscreen!
QUOTE: “Back when PS1 or PS2 was out this wasn’t a common discussion. There’s no need to go as far back as genesis or NES.”
Man, I remember debates over SNES Vs Megadrive resolutions & colours… Amiga Vs Atari ST… PS1 Vs Saturn with its dual CPU architecture. PS2 Vs Dreamcast. C64 Vs ZX Spectrum… Been there, done it and we didn’t even have the Internet back then, just stacks of C90’s.
Nah only arguments i used to get into about those systems back then was which ones had better games. Sega got shafted back then even though they had better hardware with the Saturn and the Dreamcast. Meh ZX sucked only when they released the one with more memory then Commodore could they be mentioned together, they both used a derivative of BASIC. Probably one of my favorite games on the ZX was Lazer Fighter 2 and Last Ninja 2.
Sega enjoyed a good run of systems & fortune. The Master System and Megadrive were both good consoles in their day.
The ZX Spectrum’s 48/+/128/+2/+2A/+3 were all great machines. The 48k was compared with the C64 and the 128k/+2/+2A/+3 were all compared with the C128.
If you think all the games released on the ZX Spectrum & C64 were written in BASIC, you’re (again) mistaken. BASIC was a simple way to get people interested in programming but anyone serious about ZX Spectrum games development at that time bought an assembler and learned machine code. Some of these old school coders have written stuff for more modern platforms, but most have moved on from games & music dev to movies & adverts. Others got out entirely…
These were good days! http://www.worldofspectrum.org/showmag.cgi?mag=SinclairUser/Issue011/Pages/SinclairUser01100041.jpg
@ Da_Dios (June 16, 2009 at 7:30 pm)
You still don’t understand the terminology.
QUOTE: “In the case of Stardust HD is where your buffering takes place on the PS3 to push it to 1920×1080.”
WTF dude. Seriously, WTF? You say you understand but you still don’t. Almost every f*cking game has been using frame buffers since forever. You don’t even understand what they’re used for. For God’s sake Da_Dios, return to page 1 – the big bang.
QUOTE: “Even when i listed those games i never stated 1080p i simply stated 1080″
Yeah, because you were too scared to put a “p” or “i” after it and I know why too… You didn’t have a clue what 1080p or 1080i were & you wanted to blag your way through a conversation that is way over your head.
QUOTE: “…Again NATIVE 1080 results in 1080 horizontal scan lines usually resulting in a million or more pixels.”
“Native 1080″ has no f^cking meaning whatsoever. By your terms, native 1080 could represent an infinite number of pixels.
QUOTE: “I was simply stating that 1280×1080 and 1440×1080 are native 1080 resolutions. I never said the PS3 doesn’t upscale them.” “Can you answer this for me if 1280×1080 or 1440×1080 is indeed NOT 1080 then what is… Are you saying that native 1080 p and i MUST have a fixed frame of 1920×1080?”
What is 1080? 1080 is a number. That’s all it will ever be. Your statements don’t make any sense. 1080 is not a resolution, it’s just a f^cking number!
720p is 1280×720.
1080i is 1920×1080 interlaced.
1080p is 1920×1080.
You can stick the word native in front of 720p, 1080i and 1080p or any other resolution.
LordVonPS3 says:
June 16, 2009 at 8:11 pm
@ Da_Dios (June 16, 2009 at 7:30 pm)
You still don’t understand the terminology.
QUOTE: “In the case of Stardust HD is where your buffering takes place on the PS3 to push it to 1920×1080.”
WTF dude. Seriously, WTF? You say you understand but you still don’t. Almost every f*cking game has been using frame buffers since forever. You don’t even understand what they’re used for. For God’s sake Da_Dios, return to page 1 – the big bang.
QUOTE: “Even when i listed those games i never stated 1080p i simply stated 1080″
Yeah, because you were too scared to put a “p” or “i” after it and I know why too… You didn’t have a clue what 1080p or 1080i were & you wanted to blag your way through a conversation that is way over your head.
QUOTE: “…Again NATIVE 1080 results in 1080 horizontal scan lines usually resulting in a million or more pixels.”
“Native 1080″ has no f^cking meaning whatsoever. By your terms, native 1080 could represent an infinite number of pixels.
QUOTE: “I was simply stating that 1280×1080 and 1440×1080 are native 1080 resolutions. I never said the PS3 doesn’t upscale them.” “Can you answer this for me if 1280×1080 or 1440×1080 is indeed NOT 1080 then what is… Are you saying that native 1080 p and i MUST have a fixed frame of 1920×1080?”
What is 1080? 1080 is a number. That’s all it will ever be. Your statements don’t make any sense. 1080 is not a resolution, it’s just a f^cking number!
720p is 1280×720.
1080i is 1920×1080 interlaced.
1080p is 1920×1080.
You can stick the word native in front of 720p, 1080i and 1080p or any other resolution.
To create less clutter i’ll post below the double post…
This is getting silly but okay here we go….
Quote 1: “In the case of Stardust HD is where your buffering takes place on the PS3 to push it to 1920×1080.” Did you see a ? in there anywhere, no you didn’t so why are you quoting that? Read the whole sentence i’m not asking you IF that’s where the buffering is occurring, so again not quite sure why you circled that line of text.
Quote 2: No i didn’t list p or i because i wanted to bundle all of them together. Scared of what? Scared to be wrong? Sorry everyone’s wrong at some point. Just how your wrong about me being scared. But that is a moot point no need stressing that one.
Quote 3: Okay i thought i was talking to someone who would understand when i wrote 1080 I mean 1080 as a resolution. Is that better? What other relevance does the number 1080 have in the context in which i was using it if not for resolution? In our discussion on the topic p/i are nothing more then the method the image is displayed. Tagging a p/i after that resolution only explains that. Now to quote you “Native 1080″ has no f^cking meaning whatsoever. By your terms, native 1080 could represent an infinite number of pixels” again read. I stated how many pixels included in those resolutions and it’s funny you actually quoted me saying it.
You are over complicating the subject, i want you to see the flaw in your methodology. 1080 is not just a number in this conversation it’s a resolution one that can be either p/i. 1080 is a resolution one which has to have 1080 horizontal scan lines, a number of columns and rows of pixels such as when expressed in 1920×1080.
I’m out for the night if you still don’t see this then we chat on AIM or something tomorrow. No need to be the only two people debating this for this long especially when you keep quoting me and either misinterpreting me (Qoute 1 and Quote 3).
Aim: Lionheart0716
I believe the correct response is: FAIL.
1.) There doesn’t need to be a question mark in there. The point I was making is that double buffering is not intended to “push” (your term) a game’s native resolution into any other resolution. These buffers are used to prevent on screen flicker and to aid in maintaining a consistent frame rate. The method I described illustrates how devs go about supporting a 1080i resolution as well as 720p.
2.) LOL. You know I’m right dude.
3.) No-one would understand “1080″ as a resolution, because it isn’t one unless you’re referring to 1080 lines by 1. Again, I don’t think your game would be much more exciting than my 1 pixel game – but it might be considered a sequel.
1080p and 1080i are both definitions for resolutions. 1080 is just a number, the way you use it is wrong.
I challenge you to go and attempt to write a game for yourself. Maybe then you will understand.
I was into game development but i’m a procrastinator my very first interest in computers was programming. But LOL that was such a bitch to learn and self teach. It’s funny we (old classmates of mine in High school) actually wrote an old DOS game. It was a dungeon based game where you carried a sword and could acquire a bow in arrow. We never finished it only made three dungeons, it was final project for our class (computer Science). We ended up getting a B+ because we didn’t finish it but he thought we were slackers and wouldn’t be able to code it, so guess he was wrong.
I’m done this is the last i’ll say on the issue because you don’t see my point. Which is 1440×1080 is a 1080i/p resolution. Stated much earlier was that “Full HD” is reserved only for 1920×1080. Here’s a breakdown:
If you were to compare the 1440×1080 image or frame with 1.33:1 rectangular pixels to a 1920×1080 image or frame with square 1:1 pixels then the two images would both end up with the same overall shape for the image. That would conclude a 16:9 or a 1920×1080 shape, which is what “full HD” 1920×1080p is formatted for a widescreen 16:9 aspect. To prove this lets do the math:
1.000000 x 1920 = 1920
1.333333 x 1440 = 1920
Now lets agree that yes 1920×1080 has more pixels vertically but the difference only lies within their rectangular and square pixel aspects.
Now for your front/back buffer text:
The games native resolution is equal to the back buffer resolution and the front buffer is the image for display and hardware scaling (as you written). Super Stardust HD native resolution is 1440×1080 it uses front buffers to allow scaling to 1920×1080p. Therefore the native resolution of Super Stardust HD is…. 1080(p). I through the p in there just so we don’t have to go through the whole 1080 is just a number discussion again.
Ooops i just read a mistake I falsely put Stardust HD as 1440×1080 when it runs at 1280×1080. BUT the same applies with the front buffers allowing it to reach 1920×1080.
P.S. I’m not on AIM, though I do use Skype & I tend to use my Mac more @ home these days, only using doze 7 on my work machine at the moment. Anyway – while you were out, I was sleeping… BST.
I haven’t had a detailed discussion like this in…. years! Certainly fun especially when it’s going respectfully. Hardly any disrespectful or negative insight has been insinuated.
i have 1080
The dojo is still open. PSN ID Haipa-Sonikku. I’m on PSN right now as of 9:37 am. Train hard to defend your 1080b.
I wasn’t saying that all games were written in BASIC i know a lot were though. LMFAO! Damn i don’t remember that game, that looks so COOL! I only touched the 128 in 89′ before that was all commodore 64
. I was too young to own my own Commodore so i had to wait while my older brother would either let me play or he would be elsewhere (outside, homework etc). My brother got the Commodor 64 as a late christmas present, my pops actually had to send in a mail in rebate. Those things were too expensive. Especially the Atari which we didn’t get until WAYYYYY later.
134 responses..
now its a 135 responses.oh and i have a 10000000p tv now what
Get laid.
wow what a stupid comment.”get laid” fuck outta here cornball
I wonder if this is the most comments for a single thread yet on the bitbag…. If so happy to be apart of it