I’ve seen arguments daily about how the PS3 exclusive games look better than the 360 exclusive games. Not only that, but people are also saying that the 360 can’t do games like MGS4 or Uncharted. I’d like to know why people are even posing these arguments. If you aren’t a developer, how can you say what each system can and can’t do? This Davis Daily is dedicated to the PAAG(Pointless Arguments About Graphics).
Torrence Davis
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Torrence, some people are graphics whores and some people not so much. Graphics are important. If a game is good but have bad graphics then you have to knock off some points for that. It’s unaccepatable in this day and age. When I hear people talk about Gears 2 the first thing out of their mouths are how great the graphics are.
@tor
you are right about the mgs4 thing, i should not have included mgs4 in my argument since storage was the main issue, but still a valid one since the 360 does not have a bluray drive being used for games, and to install a 50GB game on your console is just rediculous.
and just to be clear, i don’t think you’re a fanboy, but i do think that you prefer the 360, and there’s nothing wrong with that. i’m primarily a pc gamer myself and i prefer the ps3, it’s the best value imo, free online, best hardware, bluray player and awesome exclusives.
now when it comes to multiplatform games being used to fairly compare the 2 systems’ visual capabilities, i still disagree with you, and i already made it as clear as i possibly could. i guess we’d just have to agree to disagree.
uncharted 2, GOW3, heavy rain, R&C:TOD2, and team ico’s new game are all games that are gonna further widen the visual gap between the 360 and ps3. but i have a keen eye on carmack’s upcoming game(rage) using his idtech5 engine adopting his megatexture technology, and i hope it doesn’t disappoint like quake warsET.
ps: the length of time a game is in development does not dictate the final quality, e.g. KZ2, stalker and too human.
and is your new rig finished as yet? i want the davis daily to be daily.:p
I think I’ll step into this one.Okay Torrence using multiplats is pointless because they are meant to be equal on each system.Exclusive are meant to be compared because they are usually the best looking games on each system and show the power of each system.
Would you look at that.50 some comments for a davis daily.That’s even more than the warzone.Looks like this site is picking up a lot.Last year you were lucky to even get 25 comments and now it’s in the 50’s.Sweet.
@trugamer – I’ve seen that video a few times. The issue with Rage is storage, not system power. The 360 can do Rage exactly how they want it if they use the 3rd disk.
@jmd – “you are right about the mgs4 thing, i should not have included mgs4 in my argument since storage was the main issue, but still a valid one since the 360 does not have a bluray drive being used for games, and to install a 50GB game on your console is just rediculous.”
Agreed.
“and just to be clear, i don’t think you’re a fanboy, but i do think that you prefer the 360, and there’s nothing wrong with that. i’m primarily a pc gamer myself and i prefer the ps3, it’s the best value imo, free online, best hardware, bluray player and awesome exclusives.”
I only prefer the 360 for the controller and Xbox Live features. Nothing else. I LOVE the games both the 360 and PS3 offer equally.
“now when it comes to multiplatform games being used to fairly compare the 2 systems’ visual capabilities, i still disagree with you, and i already made it as clear as i possibly could. i guess we’d just have to agree to disagree.”
What are you comparing when you compare exclusives? Maybe that’s a more pertinent question. Are you saying to the world that the PS3 can’t handle Forza 2’s crash physics? Are you saying that the 360 can’t do the animations that are in KZ2? And if you are saying ‘can’t’ on both accounts, can you prove it?
“uncharted 2, GOW3, heavy rain, R&C:TOD2, and team ico’s new game are all games that are gonna further widen the visual gap between the 360 and ps3. but i have a keen eye on carmack’s upcoming game(rage) using his idtech5 engine adopting his megatexture technology, and i hope it doesn’t disappoint like quake warsET.”
My new rig should be finished by March. Maybe sooner. I want it to be Daily too.
@Truegamer again – “Torrence, some people are graphics whores and some people not so much. Graphics are important. If a game is good but have bad graphics then you have to knock off some points for that. It’s unaccepatable in this day and age. When I hear people talk about Gears 2 the first thing out of their mouths are how great the graphics are.”
People ARE graphics whores. HHG is a graphics whore and self admitted. I agree, you should knock off points for bad graphics. When I talk about Gears, it’s always about how fun it was to play. I didn’t even like Gears until I got to play it. The graphics did nothing for me until Gears 2(Waterfall = drool)
Hope you guys respond.
Peace!
T
@Torrence
What makes people buy more systems?
@zeroman – games, features and price. I’ve never ever bought a system because of the graphics. If that were true then that means I bought the 2600 for graphics. Graphics are great, but gameplay is more important. If graphics were the deal breaker on console purchases, I’m sure the Wii would be in 3rd place worldwide. I also believe that if graphics were what made people buy systems, then KZ2 would have 5 million + pre-orders.
@Torrence
I’m sure that PC gamers are gonna disagree with you.All those graphics chips they buy.
@metal gamer – it’s all a matter of control. PC gamers like to change clock speeds and upgrade video cards and do all this shit. I used to be like that but I stopped. You know why? Xbox 360 and PS3. I can play the latest games without upgrading. Everyone wants to run Crysis at 60ps, full resolution and high res textures. It’s like an accomplishment or something. I refuse to spend $400 on a video card to play one game. To each his own though.
Yeah.I don’t know what’s up with them buying a new graphics card every 6 months.It’s cheaper to just buy a console.Buying both consoles might even be cheaper plus PC gamers have to wait for a game to be ported to the PC.Ex.Mirrors edge and GTA4.I’m not a PC gamer so don’t have to worry about all that.
60 comments.Wow.That has got to be the most comments for this site ever.
Why can’t everyone just stop arguing about what console can do what and just play games? Honestly, I don’t see the big deal with exclusives and multi-platforming. A game is a game, but it should be the developers that we would get after should the game fail to live up to the expectations of what the system can do.
A great example would be that latest Golden Axe game. What a piece of shit that was. I remember SEGA saying that we could choose from 3 – 4 classes, play online, etc etc. But what happened? The game didn’t meet expectations, it was rushed, deadlines were late, blah blah blah. They finished up what they could before the game could get out and onto retail shelves. That’s business for ya in the gaming industry and business is what it’s all about in the end.
SEGA fucked up and moved on with new projects. Took a dive with GA’s sales but kept on moving. Same shit happened with Dead Space and most likely with Dante’s Inferno. Dead Space 2 is on hold, for now, but let’s hope that the same artists who worked on that project comes back. Though I doubt it since they were let go, but what ever. I hope for the best for those guys.
Getting back on topic. Who cares about what console can do better than the other? Can it play a game? That’s all that matters to me and would be the same for any other TRUE GAMER.
@Torrence
How does a game peak your interest (pre release, pre demo)?
What attracts you to a game?
Torrence, but the space is a very valid issue. All of that space on the Blu-Ray disc allows for uncompressed graphics and sound that you just can’t get on a DVD9 disc. Sure you can use 3 or 4 DVD9 discs but that shouldn’t happen these days and Microsoft charges the developer heavily after the second disc and that handicaps developers. The Xbox 360 is great but this gives the PS3 a huge advantage.
There can’t be any comparisons…
If a dev is able to do a little better with one system than the other on a multiplat that’s fine, it will probably be unnoticeable, failing to prove any superiority.
and torrance, i assume u agree that killzone2 looks better than gears 2 right, i thought i heard u say it?
well there will never be a multiplat game that has such a drastic graphical difference as gears 2 compared to killzone 2. It’ll Never happen… that’s why multiplats can’t be compared. if one version is slightly superior fine, but it will never be such an impact were any sensible conclusion can be made.
assuming each company is trying to do their best making games for their system, the only way to compare graphic fidelity is to take the best from each.. I’m telling u… and even that doesn’t do it… but its certainly better than comparing multiplats… its common sense.
so basically if u take the top 5 best graphics games from the ps3, and take the top 5 from the 360, and if the worst on the ps3 side is equal or better than the best on the 360, we have a conclusion…
read that last paragraph again please.
Torrance, i can’t believe ur getting fucking attacked lol, but multiplat isn’t how. The pure numbers disagreeing with u should be enough to prove u wrong bro, don’t be stubborn lol
I’m done with this shit tho lol,
i gotta go play my 640p ps3 street fighter 4 lol HHAHAHHAHAHAHHA
torrence u r a 360 fanboy just admit it have you ever seen a game like KZ2 on 360 have you have any one.im not the one that says it cant do it i just beleive what i see and i havent seen one game come close to KZ2 have you torrence i dont think so.you do a rant just cuz people say the ps3 have better graphics WTF
My dear Torrence Tsk tsk… Can I call you T-Dawg?
The reason the wii is first place is simple, ” accessibility ” all these old and young people buying and playing the wii for that reason its easy to “do”.
2nd my girls sisters’s husband got a wii because the online 360 games and the hardcore gamers make it hard to enjoy the game. A weak point he makes but i see what hes saying A-holes online dont help.
The price isnt that much of a problem the wii trumpets the cheapest 360 sku, but PS3 and 360 intimidate the newcomer & casual gamer the many buttons,looks harder they will need to buy an “expensive” HDTV to evolve in gaming so as a whole next gen is a complicated beast even for last gen gamers.
3rd your whole theory of ” im not a 360 fanboy i gotz a PS3 too ” holds no water, for I have a wii and cant wait to see it die a fast death.and many people feel the same having 3 consoles 1 or 2 are the stepchildren. The only reason you gotta show love to killzone2 is because you cant really deny.your not a RGZ but u sure biased towards 360 mad people saying it, its like that Mike Jackson thing u been touching young 360s for so long u dont wanna show big daddy love. But the Church of Sony is watching you son.
PS – love you site and i didnt mean to disrespect you as a man but yes at your biased and absurd comments. What you mean by “wont sell more ps3’s “your explanation sounded even more ridiculous specially after a few weeks bak you were praising netflix as a system selling feature. but prettyer graphics are not ? rationalize please.
@zeroman – “How does a game peak your interest (pre release, pre demo)?
What attracts you to a game?”
What is this a survey? I’d say that I really get peaked when a demo is released or I get the final details on gameplay. Gameplay mechanics are most important to me. The whole idea of a Ghostbusters game blows me away. I’ve been waiting for one that plays like the movies and this is it. I absolutely had no care for Gears Of War when I saw the first footage. I didn’t understand what all the hoopla was about. The long lines at E3 for Halo 1 when it was PC only…I didn’t get it. World Of Warcraft sucked balls until I learned about all the skills. I eventually loved all 3 games after looking deep into them and finally playing them.
@kapado – I guess when I defend the PS3 I must be a PS3 fanboy then. When I’m defending the Wii this year because of it’s stellar line up then I’ll be a Wii fanboy.
“What you mean by “wont sell more ps3’s “your explanation sounded even more ridiculous specially after a few weeks bak you were praising netflix as a system selling feature. but prettyer graphics are not ? rationalize please.”
Did I say Netflix was a system seller!?!? Did I?!? Did I say that’s why people were buying Arcades? I think Anthony Canepa said that…not me. I said it gives you an added value. Go back to that episode and start listening at 145:00.
Next…
No, its not a survey. I was just trying to figure out how your reasoning leads you to think that Graphics are not a huge selling point for systems and games.
If “Graphics don’t make people buy systems”, then why do companies spend so much money redesigning their consoles to output better Graphics each gen?
Why would developers wastes time and money creating software that produces better Graphics than their old games?
The answer is simple. Graphics ARE a major selling point for games, and Graphic Power IS a major selling point for systems.
@Torrence -”If that were true then that means I bought the 2600 for graphics. Graphics are great, but gameplay is more important.”
If you are suggesting that you bought the 2600 because of the gameplay then your argument makes no sense, because the gameplay and graphics on the 2600 are on the same level.
@Torrence -”If graphics were the deal breaker on console purchases, I’m sure the Wii would be in 3rd place worldwide.”
The Wii argument is weak. Everybody knows that the Wii is only selling because it was marketed heavily to a non-gamer consumer base. My grandmother loves the Wii.
Am I wrong?
@tor
“What are you comparing when you compare exclusives? Maybe that’s a more pertinent question. Are you saying to the world that the PS3 can’t handle Forza 2’s crash physics? Are you saying that the 360 can’t do the animations that are in KZ2? And if you are saying ‘can’t’ on both accounts, can you prove it?”
a very clever argument torrence, but one i’m prepared for. when it comes to forza’s crash/damage physics i can confidently say that the ps3 can handle it, and a lot more(since the SPUs are very good at physics(vector math)), forza is a very poor example of crash physics anyways, especially since burnout paradise and grid do it alot better, however when it comes to real driving physics nothing can topple GT5P. and i am yet to see a game on the 360 have the same level of animation quality of KZ2 and uncharted, again the SPUs afford ps3 games to have better animations as well. i really don’t get why you can’t see that exclusives are what defines a platform’s capabilities.
ps: sorry about the late response, 5 hour difference here in the UK, i fell asleep.:p
“i really don’t get why you can’t see that exclusives are what defines a platform’s capabilities.”
Exclusives do define a systems capabilities to a certain extent. Multiplats can do it too. We just haven’t seen it yet, especially on the PS3. I’d say I’m on the fence with KZ2. Let’s see what the rest of the year offers.
Just a note, I’ve never ever bought a system because of the graphics. NEVER. It’s always been the games that are offered. I do LOVE good graphics, don’t get me wrong. That’s not what I used to base a purchase on though.
“Let’s see what the rest of the year offers.”
agreed, the only game i know of, that has the potential is RAGE.
oh, i forgot, i know i’ve told you b4, but i hope you haven’t purchased your gpu for you rig as yet, i really think you should get a GTX260, it’s a much better card than the 4870, it has cuda, ageia physx support, a lot more dev support, better performance, great heat dissipation and a lot of overclocking potential. anyways, march is almost here, and it’d be cool to play some L4D and TF2 with you on steam.
“A game has to be the same spec for comparison.”
But if they have the same specifications, what is there to compare?
“Look at Burnout Paradise. Are you saying you can’t compare those on each platform?”
Well, yes, mainly because I do not own a 360, nor copies of Burnout Paradise. But I do have a COD4 for my PC and PS3 and the PC version looks better. But it is kind of harsh to compare consoles to PCs considering that console remain constant until the next version comes out and PC varies based on the user. But if you are interested, please, tell me your comparison between the 360 version and the PS3 version of Burnout Paradise. I doubt it would be huge.
“You can’t compare ANY exclusives, even if they are the same genre. You can’t compare Halo to Resistance. Both games are different specs, different engines, different art, different textures..etc…”
Eh, when you benchmark a game, you generally ignore things like story, art, and etc. Every engine has there flaws but many are very stable and well developed. When benchmarking, one generally tend to look at numbers, such as the number of actual animation that goes on the scene, the amount of RAM and CPU power the game uses to process the animation and AI, the amount of polygons aloud in the screen, the maximum resolution the game may maintain without noticeable drop in frame rates, and etcetera. Look at Crysis for example. It is the benchmark of what a hardcore PC fanatic should aim for, but the story element was not that great.
There is nothing wrong with benchmarks. All it does is tell everyone what the consoles are currently capable of. If a 360 or multi-platform developer manages to build a game that may be comparable with Killzone 2’s GRAPHICS, then that game would be the new benchmark for console when it comes to GRAPHICS. Though, even the term “graphics†is very general and can be broken up into many compartments. There are other stuff such as sound effects, and so on. Benchmarking also helps some developers to reach a goal and these games changes all the time.
But yes, you can’t compare the games themselves. Like you can’t say that Killzone 2 is better than Halo 3 simply because the game looks better or that Halo 3 is better because better server support. But in general, you can’t compare games as a whole. Exclusive games are all different and multplatform games are generally, and should be, the same.
“Exclusives do define a systems capabilities to a certain extent. Multiplats can do it too. WE JUST HAVEN’T SEEN IT YET, especially on the PS3. I’d say I’m on the fence with KZ2. Let’s see what the rest of the year offers.â€
Well, yes, that is the point, and that goes for both consoles. All we could do is look at the present and hope for the future.
As for your video comment on the average gamer not caring about motion vectors, you are right. But it does tell what the system is capable of and what the future of gaming may look like and how technology is progressing. In general though, I do not see why people use these information on debates. But I do believe that they are worth talking about just for the sake of knowing.
I mean, I still think that StarCraft: Brood Wars is still the best RTS and Street Fighter III: Third Strike and Super Street Fighter II Turbo are the besting fighting games, and that has nothing to do with graphics or engine specifications.
@wongumfie
“In general though, I do not see why people use these information on debates. But I do believe that they are worth talking about just for the sake of knowing.”
it’s not a debate about games’ graphics, but rather if console A can do better graphics than console B. ever since there were different Atari’s and Commodore’s and the such, there has been whining about graphics. what people need to do is be mature enough to accept that console A is capable of better graphics than console B and move on and put the focus back onto the games.
Who cares if console “A” can do better graphics than console “B”?It should be about the great games rather if one game better graphics than the other.Everyone knows the PS3 is more powerful as it’s a year newer so why the debate?
*Scrapes away the dead horse*
There! No more arguing!
“oh, i forgot, i know i’ve told you b4, but i hope you haven’t purchased your gpu for you rig as yet, i really think you should get a GTX260, it’s a much better card than the 4870, it has cuda, ageia physx support, a lot more dev support, better performance, great heat dissipation and a lot of overclocking potential. anyways, march is almost here, and it’d be cool to play some L4D and TF2 with you on steam.”
I’m building this for video production, not gaming. I will load a game or two just to test it though. I’ll never use an Nvidia again. ATi all the way!
hopefully after this davis daily, the console war BS will subside, at least till ps4 and 720.
oh, i remember now, you said you had some back luck with nvidia cards b4.lol
i’m disappointed to hear you won’t be gaming much, especially with a rig like that, but maybe that will change when you experience the awesomeness that is pc gaming.:)
I’ve always been more of a 360 kinda guy, but these games Sony is coming out with have my jaw on the floor. I hate the fact that some people compare a third person title to a first person title. Both systems have amazing games, and I wish people would just realize it and shut up. Also, Torrence I agree that Uncharted could be done on 360. It’s unfortunate that we havn’t seen anything like Uncharted on 360, but hopefully we will sometime in the near future. Anyhow, keep fighting the good fight, and I’ll sit and stare at my calendar until the 27th…
jaffe basically just told some biased journalist from MSNBC to fuck off with their biased bullshit.lol
http://criminalcrackdown.blogspot.com/2009/02/is-this-biased-journalism-or-is-it-just.html
@JMD
Lol ya I saw that.That’s awesome.